Bedding New Rb74 Pads

[B0oStEr]

When I bought my pads from racebrakes the bloke made a point of telling me to bed them in hard. This is the opposite to what I've been told to do to bed in normal pads.

He told me it's to bring the resins to the surface of the pad so they can coat the rotor.

He said do ten or so >100kph to 30kph hard applications until they smoke then drive normally until they cool down.

I did this tonight after fitting the new pads along with new slotted rotors.

The trouble was even on a country road opportunities to perform the required stops safely were too far apart and although I could smell the pads I'm not sure I got them hot enough.

The brakes seemed to work great even from the first stop and seem to function normally now they have cooled but how can I be sure they are bedded in properly?

Should I repeat the proceedure somewhere with less traffic?

[Bl4cK32]

i just bought some of these, so ill be in the same boat as you as soon as i fit them.

I have heard the same advice as you, however, it was said you dont really need them "smoking". Just a few good 100 to 30(or 40) kmh and you should be right. Dont stop completely as its bad for the brakes as well...

Id say do it a couple of times to be sure (so you can smell em) and you should be ok....

Let us know how you go.

[Beer Baron]

i'm not a big fan of the RB74 pads as they are a rebonded pad. ie they re-use backing plates then glue a new friction material on. a couple of people have had the pads fall off the backing plates which is not good. that is why the bedding in process is so important with these pads. it's to ensure that the pad is properly boned to the backing. they are not a bad pad but are very dusty and quite hard on rotors.

[Cubes]

That being said...

What pads would you recommend for the street and occasional track use Mr. Beer Baron?

I've tried Bendix Ultimates, stopped awesome, very dusty and very hard on my new rotors, they also only lasted ~20,000km's which I was very dissapointed with. I didn't even really give them a hard time.

Running the usual semi-metals, i've now clocked at least 70,000km's.

They do feel a little hard and slippery but can still easily lock the wheels on demand.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Cubes

[Bl4cK32]

I understand that you need to choose pads for what you are using them for...

If budget was no drama, everyone would be using the top of the line pads....but i cant justify spending $450 + on a set of pads for the street with some track work

$250 is still up there, but for the price the rb74's are ($160 odd), ill see how they go for now.

If you want great braking power, does it always comes at a cost of the rotors, or the pads being chewed??

[Beer Baron]

ARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHH i just typed this twice then accidentaly hit escape, twice.

now what i was saying was the two important considerations (from a perfromance view) is coeficient of friction and temp rating. it's also worth looking at pad material (affects dust level, noise, rotor wear), and whether or not they are rebonded, and also price.

for pads i've used i reckon the Endless Super S-Sports are a good road pad and good enough for the odd track day too. unfortunately there are not many good compromises and i reckon it's worth having two sets of pads, one for track and one for road as even the endless need 1 or 2 reasonable stops before they are doing decent stoping.

the endless are rated to work deom 30 - 935 degrees F and have a cof of 0.35 ~ 0.43

for the next track day i will try the endless CC-X or CC-R which probably wont be suitable for road use as they are rated 120 - 1300 F and 0.38 ~ 0.50 for the CC-X and 300 - 1500 F and 0.35 ~ 0.42 for the CC-R.

I really think it is worth having two different sets of pads, or if you must use a compromise i think the Super S-Sports are a very good fast road/odd track day pad. They cost me around $150 in japan not sure what they are worth here though.

also, take all this with a grain of salt as i'm far from a brake expert, but i've tried a few different types. I will let you know how the CC-X/CC-R pads go.

[Beer Baron]

oh, i forgot to ad, if you are just using road tyres on these track day excursions then the Super S-Sports or something like that will be fine as your tyres will probably run out of grip before you get pad fade.

i run semi's so need something a bit tougher.

[Bl4cK32]

Its really hard to know what to use sometimes, as when i rang up racebrakes, I told the guy i wanted mainly street, with occasional track.

He gave me some conflicting opinions....firstly he told me to use endless euros? @ $460 odd, the ferodo ds2500 were $260, then rb74's were $160 ish....i had to make my choice based on pricing that he gave me at the time....

If someone had a full list of pricing, and what the pads were for, i couldve ended up with something like you suggested i spose

[Chris32]

I used some Racebrakes Comp 9's on the front and Comp 2's on the rear of my car last time I was at the track.

They worked really well, but where way too hard on rotors and where very noisy for street use. These are in the shed now, waiting for the next track day, using some Bendix up front, Lucas on the rear. Quite good on the street

Pays to have two sets of pads if you are going to use it on the track, as the track orientated pads are not the best choice for daily driving

Well in my case anyway

Forgot to add too - bedding in the pads hard is fine, but new rotors, best to use the old pads and bed them in gradually, otherwise you will crack new rotors if you cook them too hard to start with

Edited September 2, 2005 by Chris32

[Roy]

Count Hardcore likes the Endless stuff

I used some Racebrakes Comp 9's on the front and Comp 2's on the rear of my car last time I was at the track.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They are a little harder on rotors then Bendix etc but they are a lot better then the RB74 etc.

And just be careful when thinking that the Comp 9s are tearing your rotor apart because visually they look crook. Get a screw driver and give them a light scrape and you will most likely find what looks liek metal is actually pad material.

After a track day my rotors look flogged proper, but the drive home always cleans them up and a scre driver in the slot clears it out quicksmart...a sign of properly bedded pads that are workign at their optimum is when the pad material actually builds up to a certain extent on the rotor.

...well at least thats what i read in my travels in texts on brake / susp setups

[Beer Baron]

yeah count hardcore is going to give the CC-X a go next time.

a set of those front and rear is only around $500, not bad for 8 pads. they should be about as full on as i will go.

[Chris32]

Count Hardcore likes the Endless stuff

They are a little harder on rotors then Bendix etc but they are a lot better then the RB74  etc.

And just be careful when thinking that the Comp 9s are tearing your rotor apart because visually they look crook. Get a screw driver and give them a light scrape and you will most likely find what looks liek metal is actually pad material.

After a track day my rotors look flogged proper, but the drive home always cleans them up and a scre driver in the slot clears it out quicksmart...a sign of properly bedded pads that are workign at their optimum is when the pad material actually builds up to a certain extent on the rotor.

...well at least thats what i read in my travels in texts on brake / susp setups

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah mate, the track stuff was similar to what you say, more shit on the rotor from the pads than bits of rotor wearing away

Its daily driving on these pads, when they are not at proper temp, thats kills rotors! Nice grinding noises for the first 10 mins of driving

Hows you beast going? When are you in Adelaide next?

[Roy]

Sat 1st October. my 1st thrash around Mallala. im lookign forward to it.

This will be the 4th track day on these pads, got the rotors machined before they went in with the rotor thickness noted on the invoice. Will be interesting to see how 4 - 5 track days and 6,000-8,000 road kms goes with these pads and rotors...

And she is not a beast, new duco means she will never have looks so civilised

[Beer Baron]

mmm purdy. we all know that 32 = most beatiful car in the world.. :uh-huh:

[Chris32]

Sat 1st October. my 1st thrash around Mallala. im lookign forward to it.

This will be the 4th track day on these pads, got the rotors machined before they went in with the rotor thickness noted on the invoice. Will be interesting to see how 4 - 5 track days and 6,000-8,000 road kms goes with these pads and rotors...

And she is not a beast, new duco means she will never have looks so civilised

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Awesome. I will come up for sure, dunno if I will have a go or not. Just moved into a new place, so most of my money has been tied up with that, so the car isn't up to shape for track stuff yet. Never know, by October, it might be!

[gts4diehard]

Technical Bulletin – 2004/5 – #5

Rotors & Drums Australia Pty Ltd

EBC Brakes Australia Pty Ltd

BEDDING IN OF PADS AND ROTORS

When a vehicle has had both new rotors and new pads fitted there are two processes or objectives to

getting the brake system to operate at optimal performance.

Step 1 is heating the brake rotor and pads to transfer the pad material evenly onto the rotor face.

Step 2 is maturing or cooking the pad to ensure that gasses are burnt out of the pad material and that

resins in the pad material bind together.

Step 1 & 2 involves performing a series of stops, so that the brake rotor and pad are heated steadily, to

allow the transfer of pad material onto the brake rotor friction surface. The friction surface should be

clear of all oils which are used to stop the rotor from rusting before being fitted to the motor vehicle.

Whilst these will be burnt off, they risk transferring and possibly polluting the brake pad material and

will definitely lead to a longer bedding in process. Whilst performing a series of brake applications to

transfer the pad material, care should be taken to not come to a complete stop, as this can lead to the

transfer of pad material unevenly on the disc at the point where the pad comes to rest on the friction

surface.

A typical program of ten brake applications from 80km down to 20km p/hour without any cool down in

between would be sufficient. If it is noticeable that after 5-6 applications that the performance drops

away, this means the resins and gasses have yet to be burnt or compressed, out of the pad material.

For performance pad materials, a further two sequences of ten stops will be required after a cooling

down period between each cycle, to ensure that the pads have reached the required higher operating

temperature to allow for the pad material to transfer effectively.

At all times during the bedding in process, care should be taken to not apply the brakes in a harsh

manner or decelerate from high speeds, as this will corrupt the transfer of materials and lead to uneven

material build up on the rotor surface, which in most instances will require machining to regain a flat

rotor surface for optimal operation (Disc thickness vibration-DTV-which leads to brake judder or

vibration-see RDA/EBC Bulletin #5).

How will I know if they are bedded in?

The two major visual indicators are disc rotor discoloration and machining marks on the friction surface

of the disc rotor.

1) Disc rotor should have a slight bluish tint with a grey tint that indicates where the brake pads have

come into contact with the rotor. Too much heat will cause the rotor face to be extremely blue and

has been overcooked in the bedding in process.

2) If there is still a shine on the rotor surface, then not enough pad material, has been transferred.

Once brakes have been bedded in, it is also important, to keep them that way. If any brake pad is used

below its adherent operating temperature over a period of time it will slowly remove the transfer layer

on the rotor surface. Standard and especially performance pads like to be driven a little more

aggressively every now and then to maintain this pad material on the rotor friction surface. Similar in

effect to taking a city based car on a country run every now and then and noticing the change in the

exhaust tail pipe color, go from black to grey as it operates at a different temperature, to what it has

become accustomed. Passive use of brakes over an extended period of time will in effect lead to

“unbedded brakes”.