Lithium

For what its worth I've never heard of anyone having a failure with that one... though given how thin on the ground the results are, and BW or suppliers obviously never advertise "You could have problems with this" its hard to say. Ideally, you shouldn't.

Yeah definitely aware of the tricks - hence the reference to "milled out", trick is that same thing which is a lot of why billet turbos tend to flow and spool better is also some of the same stuff required to keep strength. Whether there has been any design consideration to ensure optimal flow where material has been removed, or structural integrity to the level required to hold together at those speeds - who knows. Kando turbos have typically been about effectively mimicking proven design, as soon as they go about redesigning (even if it means "just" trimming the existing design) we're moving into relatively unchartered territory. Doesn't mean its not going to work, just I'd rather watch the guinea cops and see how it goes for them.

I suddenly am very very suspicious of Kando, I wouldn't touch that with a 10ft barge pole - at least until I saw some fairly decent evidence it wasn't going to explode. 30% more power with what looks like essentially the same design, albeit milled out? Garrett "only" claim around 10% more.... I'd love to know what kind of testing they have done to make those claims, and ensure it's not going to fly apart.

Should have worded it that way, you make a blanket statement and "forum heros" will tend to try and crush statements which could start a perpetuation of misinformation. It will typically be for the good of people who read through the thread in future, if the comment was ignored and left there it would turn into a "fact" and people who knew no better will be all like "Sweet I need a cast compressor so I get better response" and potentially forgo the latest greatest options. I have NFI what the billet Kandos are like, and wouldn't want to recommend them until I had even an inkling of how they performed and lasted.

Sure, if you want. As a hint, its a lot easier to find information in support of your side of the debate when your opinion is correct.

Actually you said: So yeah, you basically said "there" heavier as an explanation of why they spool slower. Best favour you could do yourself is stop talking, at least until you've tried to understand what you're talking about. For what its worth, here's a couple of interesting stats I've encountered in my travels: Garrett GT3582R cast compressor wheel weight: 120.2 grams FP GT3582R HTA billet compressor wheel weight: 93 grams Wouldn't be surprised if the Garrett GTX compressor wheels are heavier, but they have more blades and are overall larger than their cast equivalents. Some more stats for compressors, while we're here: GT3076R HTA - 54.8mm in, 76.0mm exd. GT3076R - 57.0mm in, 76.2mm exd. GTX3076R - 58.0mm in, 76.6mm exd. T67-25G - 60.5mm in, 78.0mm exd. GT3582R HTA - 60.0mm in, 82.0mm exd. GT3582R - 61.2mm in, 82.0mm exd. I ordered that loosely on overall wheel size, and bet a mince pie that you'd find that it matches order of transient response for said turbos too.

Would you say the overall result was comparable to what you'd expect from E85?

10.4 out of a full street car close enough? It did 11 flat at around 130mph on pump gas, too.... Sweet, yeah thought that might be the case Very interested to see how that goes!

Nice, will be cool to see Same manifolds etc? The reason I'd love to drive one myself is response, there was some interesting testing between two equivalent cars recently (stock engine, similar boost, similar weight) - one running a externally gated .63a/r GT3582R and the other an internally gated .82a/r GT3076R, both cars had almost identical spool on the dyno but the GT3582R setup made 20kw more in the top end. Real world testing proved the GT3076R car to be consistantly quicker (albeit not by a huge amount, just consistantly). Very interesting result, actually - had been one I'd always been interested to see as those two turbo combinations are a comparison which have come up in previous conversations I've been in, but all hypothetically. Not idea if the same would be the case with a T67, ever experienced one myself - but I'd expect it to sit somewhere between a GT30R and GT35R in response.

Cost vs performance is where the T67 wins, but I'm not convinced that they will be the same in performance - I "got into" the who turbo world when GReddy T67-25G and HKS GT3037 were direct competitors way back when, and generally speaking the HKS unit became something of a hero turbo... power numbers etc were often almost favouring the T67 (which is no doubt the better peak power unit) but in real world terms the HKS (/Garrett) unit tended to produce the quicker car, even in drag racing. Would love to drive the same car back to back with one of each though, to be sure as SimonR32s results look very very decent. So in my head, in terms of ultimate "overall" performance at the level Bri73y is asking for I think its "middle of the road" of his options but easily the #1 in terms of cost, in a 1150kg car its lower response etc may well not be a problem at all. The turbo I suspect FullRace will recommend (S200SX 7670) would be a very good performer, probably not the most expensive option but would be a good option - maybe more cost effective if not purchased as a full kit from FP. If cards could be played right in terms of fabrication etc I wouldn't be surprised if its the best value vs money, though results are thin on the ground so thats assuming the few positive results out there are realistic - I have definitely seen footage of a track EVO running one and it looked very impressive. FP GT3076R HTA is still my favourite "ignoring cost" option, for if I were building a similar fast fun car to drive.

FullRace and budget option sounds contradictory, very interested to know what they suggest and associated cost

I haven't experienced one first hand, and there are no flow maps that I have seen released so I am only going from results and testimonies - which I have not found anything but good from. I have mates with FP GT3582R-HTA and FP GT3586R-HTA turbos and they have had awesome luck with those too, both at sane boost levels and at high ones, so I consider FP and their HTA technology to be a reasonably safe bet to deliver. From results I've seen, I can definitely extrapolate that yeah... like the GTX it is a turbo which starts coming into its own as boost levels drift north of 1.2bar boost as opposed to everywhere. This doesn't mean its going to lack at all compared to a run of the mill GT30R etc at those levels, it just means that its not a replacement for a bigger turbo like a GT3582R (or bigger) *IF* you have an engine that has huge flow at moderate boost levels. They perform well across the board, but if you're going to take them with a dose of alcohol and 20+psi - thats where you're going to get some impressive numbers compared to a run of the mill item. The thing that attracts these to me is that they provide better response and theoretical compressor/turbine match than the normal GT3076R (as opposed to the GTX, which Garrett ended up deciding better suited to a GT35) so a GT3076R-HTA technically has it over a normal GT3076R even if it flowed no better at any boost level.

Did you follow the link and read the customer reviews of them? One of the guys was a 2.5litre Subie guy making 21psi by 3750rpm, and 325awkw (436whp on a Mustang Dyno) on US 93 Octane at 24psi... I found a thread from the same guy, see here: http://forums.nasioc...d.php?t=2083214 Made 499awhp on 28psi on C16, E85 would probaby get similar or better gains.

OK, for people who can't see EVOM: E85, 30psi, EFR7670, Dynapack: On Mustang at 28psi:

Agreed, for a cheap setup I can't think of a better combination straight off the top of my head. On pump gas, yes it would. On E85, 350kw isn't so much of a tall ask IMHO. We have guys here who were running nearer 400kw @ 4 hubs on track cars with standard issue 56t GT3076Rs. The 370rwkw target can't be promised, though inconsistant dyno reading levels across the board mean that its a bit of a hard one to call - realistically the best any of us can do is suggest turbos that would float in that range and offer a good compromise between the acceleration and response he'd hope for in terms of things in that range. In regards to the GTX3576R TS, I'm not convinced it'd justify its price. This is going to be a track car, the ATP twin scroll housings are not the most reliable under heavy use and there is a real chance of the divider failing - unless you know of someone else making a 1.06TS turbine housing for these. Would be an interesting combination, they have me curious but so far unconvinced. There are plenty that have gone >360kw on hub dynos on E85, bare in mind the vast majority here have internal gates, and pump gas - there aren't THAT many with decent plenums, exhaust manifolds, E85 and 20+psi of boost going through them. In regards to the GT3076R-HTA, and dyno readings - I'm sure most people know Mustang dynos are probably the closest reading dynos to Dyno Dynamics. Here's an interesting thread where a guy with a twin scroll EFR7670 runs into issues with his build which was initially tuned on a Dynapack and made over 600hp @ hubs. His car ends up being tuned later by Buschur Racing on his Mustang Dyno, where it ends up in the mid 500whp range - then finds itself subject to a comparison with a single scroll GT3076R HTA with a TiAL .82a/r turbine housing, and the results are interesting... Full thread can be seen here: http://m.evolutionm.net/showthread.php?t=573459 And where Buschur retunes it, and gives his thoughts on how the EFR behaves - and then the conversation floats into comparison with the GT3076R HTA in following pages: http://m.evolutionm.net/showpost.php?p=9705827&postcount=298 I more show the thread as general information, you can see that the GT30 when matched with a compressor that appears to get on well with it isn't THAT much of a problem (considering the EFRs are supposed to be "all that" in terms of turbine flow and the HTA looks to be happier. If you were to believe the BW/Full Race hype the EFR7670 would be THE no expense spared turbo to choose for these kinds of power levels, and here we have a single scroll HTA turbo schooling one.

PT6262 would be epic lols on a RB26 track car on E85, though not so sure its what he's looking at. Probably 4500+rpm for full boost, but potential for >450kw would be amusing in an 1150kg RWD track car hahahah

How much are you willing to compromise cheap vs performance? There are cheaper turbos than the HTA which may perform in a similar territory, though they rely on twin scroll partly to boost natural torque and exhaust efficiency to get the "wider" performance - ie, something like a Holset HX35. Alternatively, there is the Kando Dynamics T67 turbo SimonR32 uses on his R32 which will also make the power, but is likely to introduce more lag (though to be fair, an RB26 in a car weighing 1150kg will probably cover that up) than the other options I mentioned and probably have a "snappier" nature, 20psi @ 4000rpm possible but I wouldn't want to guarantee it. Any of the options mentioned will get you in the territory of 370kw and 20psi by 4000rpm, GT3582R being most likely to fall short of your response requirements but more than capable of the power, GT3076R working hardest to reach the target power but one of the most responsive.

If I were building exactly the same thing, going by the things I've seen out and about these days - I'd go for a single entry FP GT3076R HTA with .82a/r hot side on a 6boost manifold. There should be no surprises, its based on the existing Garrett GT30 platform which is long proven to be reliable, and has a better matched compressor on it that the "normal" out going 56 trim GT3076R (let alone the GTX3076R) while also providing a higher flow rate. The combination has been around for a number of years now, proven to "make the numbers", and there is no debate that they actually spool and respond quicker than the normal GT3076R (which would already be a reasonable option to consider). Realistically you'd be looking at more power than GT3076R while being closer in spool and transient response to the smaller GT3071R. http://store.forcedp...TGT3076HTA.html I'd say your 370kw on E85, and 20psi by 4000rpm should be pretty achieveable with that combination - potentially with change.

Congrats, car looked and sounded incredible - you must be stoked. Thats a seriously good time considering how early in the piece it is, another 18psi (!??) and it might just dip into the 6s Best of luck with the future runs, looking forward to a RB based drag car finally mixing it up with the 2JZs! Definitely my favourite drag car of the moment

Yep, bearing in mind I have never experienced the EFR turbos myself... like most, but the ball bearing HTA turbos so far have impressed the hell out of me. I know of no one under whelmed by results when they have tried one, too.

Lol awesome, .3 off the GTRs best time ever running "only" 30psi and rolling through the end traps? Looking forward to hearing how it goes this weekend, good luck - now the fun begins! Be pretty sweet if after some seat time this ends up going snugly into the 6s

Was it a "perfect" smooth high idle before you did that? What kind of tuning have you done on the ECU? How much driving had you done with that setup before the problem arose?

What kind of ignition system are you running? Sounds like what I'd expect if someone had wired the ignition outputs out wrong, or wired leads up in the wrong cylinder order.... sometimes people are thinking firing order when they say "1,2,3,4,5,6" and sometimes they are thinking physical cylinder number. If you wire something up where the two terms contradict then most diagnosis won't show anything wrong, as everything is working exactly as its meant to - just the point the plug has been wired to fire at isn't going to result in very efficient combustion

With decent exhaust/intake manifolds? If so, this could make some mighty power Would hope 200kw @ 4000rpm should be doable.

Internal gate, or external etc? What kind of other mods? I'd be happy if it were hitting 20psi under 4000rpm.