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Everything posted by Lithium
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Did you previously have a GT3076R?
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300Kw Unopened 25 Club...
Lithium replied to joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
^ I tend to agree with the above, being a cowboy is what causes problems - and that condition is something that can happen with a "pro" or a DIY tuner. I personally took ages before I built up the nerve to tune my own car, or anyone elses.... I did shiteloads of research and general observation before I even considered pushing any numbers at all. Once it got to a point where the main advantage I could see a pro-tuner would have over me would be how long I would take to tune a car I decided it was time and effort better spent by myself, as at least that way I'd be thorough and I knew exactly what was put into the tune and how hard I was leaning on it, and also I could keep refining the tune. Someone who is tuning to get a pretty dyno curve, and something that drives generally good and economically can just focus on basic areas of the map and settings which give a bare minimum to make a happy customer who is none the wiser. The thing that breaks a motor can be "the stuff in between"... I've seen plenty of tunes done by "pros" that I can say hand on heart are what I'd not even call acceptable for letting someone drive, at least more than to limp somewhere to get a proper tune. I fully intend on doing everything I can to keep appreciation for how much force is involved with what we do, and how expensive the bits under that force are and continue the mission to learn how to best optimise the bits that go on so that the entire tuning process happens as comfortably as possible for the owner of a car, and the car itself - to end up with a proper long living well performing car, and hope to never be responsible for breaking an engine. If you understand the hardware, the software and general principals you are working with and remember to stay ever vigilant when tuning there is no magic and a DIYer should be perfectable able to DIY and get a good result... plenty of people here have done so fine so far. -
Thats absolutely awesome, top work! What is the engine spec now? Hmm that time/trap speed is relatively on par with what the 800whp guys in the US are doing with Precision turbos...
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Godzilla Motorsport R35 Gtr Drag Car
Lithium replied to GodzillaMotorsport's topic in Motorsport Discussion & Builds
Totally love it man, that sounds mental and really glad you're going to give it a crack with an RB initially - would love to see some solid 6s passes from one Are AMS going to be working with you on the VR38 build? When that thing goes in, I think the 2JZ crowd will have reason to worry! -
One of the lads on GTRUK have a plug in Link that has had sequential sparked added, not sure if that is now (or is going to be) an extra, or new feature.
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WOW!!!!!! Nice
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Plenty of us refer to power at particular points in the rpm range, which is probably more definitive than the tractive effort readings the dyno puts on a "torque" curve as you can't really compare those numbers between dynos or necessarily even the same dyno with different cars. Absolutely he is - I take quite different considerations when matching a turbo for something running pump gas vs E85 etc, I picked a .82a/r hotside for my car partly because I was going to be using stock manifolds and pump gas on a motor with cast pistons etc. E85 is amazing stuff, I wish we had it at the pump here. As I've mentioned before, ForcedPerformance imho have done a better job with the GT30 and GT35 "improvements" than Garrett - and they use a modified .70a/r T04S cover for their GT30 varients, there have been some very impressive results for their GT3076R-HTA running .82a/r hotside. If money was no object, I'd try one of their GT3073R-HTA turbos out on an RB25 - could be interesting.
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For anyone that is interested, these seem to get less attention than the PT67 turbos but I've been a little more fascinated by these.... haven't said too much as I've been keeping an eye out for results on these things for AGES which are closer to indicating what to expect for those of us who don't want to have to rely on E85/huge boost for making good power and good spool - found that someone has run one on an XR6T and made really good power relative to boost level on one, despite being on a fairly basic setup with stock manifold etc. 400kw on 1bar on pump gas, for example... and sounds and spools awesome! So now I'm pretty much convinced this would be a gun turbo for a big power RB that retains some form of streetability, they've made >900hp @ wheels on E85 (American dyno style, but still equates to >600kw @ wheels Dyno Dynamics if you take in account the differences) and pushed various Mitsis into the 8s. See here: And thread: http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/topic/78068-boosted-1-in-with-446rwkw/page__p__1166770#entry1166770 Need to somehow fast track finding money to build an RB30DET suitable for such a setup
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^ Agreed, I have to say I called the GTX3076R pointlessness ages ago - before they even showed up on cars. GTX3576R sounds like it makes more sense, though I'd rather just use something already on the market that already spools and responds better than a normal GT3582R but makes way more power as well (GT3582R HTA). The GTX3071R haven't yet done anything which make me feel like they have made the GT3076R redundant that I have seen yet.
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Why stop at twin GTX35Rs on a VK56 when GTX45Rs would be much more sensible?
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No takers for 4 of them on a VK50?
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733 R.w.h.p. Rb 28 With 93 Oct And 23.5 Psi
Lithium replied to Weapon X's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Accuracy is not an issue in this case anyway, DJ are really really consistant. How generous (or not) the dyno is the only point worth baring in mind here imho. In anyone's language this car is making a LOT of power, I'd be picking this car would still be making over 500rwkw on a DD dyno. I'm a bit iffy about the spool in this case, though - I'd have hoped to see better on a 2.8. -
733 R.w.h.p. Rb 28 With 93 Oct And 23.5 Psi
Lithium replied to Weapon X's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
It was measured @ wheels, its rwhp. The fact that its closer to the engine hp than what a DD would give a reading for makes no difference, further from engine hp doesn't make it more accurate at all - just means its different and I think the collective are pretty offensive to continually slam anyone that runs a different dyno type to the minority here.... especially to the point of calling it junk. I personally feel that compared to MOST dyno brands the DD is the problem child, it reads far enough out from the "average" that it skews the whole ballgame, especially when DD fanbois act like all the others are "wrong" when thats BS. For what its worth I've seen the odd comparison made between Dynojets and engine dynos and have seen results of 10-20% discrepancy between the number made on the engine dyno versus the DJ chassis dyno. The Dynojet software does NOT inflate anything (well it probably will do a little for SAE/whatever correction, as will DD/Dynapack/another other decent dyno software). I know damn well Guilt Toy has more than half a brain, which is a good part of the reason I was so incredulous at what he said - this place is about sharing info and I feel that it was quite a "brain disengaged" type of comment to make, this place should be about sharing knowledge, experience and such forth. This guy has what could prove to be very useful "stuff" to share with us, and whether you guys like it or not he is using a dyno which is very likely to be far more proven and respected internationally ((certainly in the US) than DD and thus has really no reason to be treated as though he is an ignoramus for doing so. That kind of culture is what trains people who actually have experience worth sharing and would otherwise be inclined to into shutting up, and letting the empty cans prattle on and propegate misinformation further than it already has - and it clearly frustrates me. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Fingers crossed you have a turnaround in luck when you get back into it, there are all sorts of other turbo options out there these days which are matching or bettering the EFRs in dyno comparisons - though there is a lot of hype out there about their response being better than what you can tell on dyno results, will be interesting to hear objective views on it as at the moment they definitely aren't at the top of my list of turbos I'd take a punt on - despite being one of the most interesting, just because of how big the doubt has got. -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
I can see that, but its a bit strange as realistically the T04Z is a closer comparison to -10s than -5s. -
733 R.w.h.p. Rb 28 With 93 Oct And 23.5 Psi
Lithium replied to Weapon X's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
What a ridiculous post, dude. For what its worth, from things I've observed so far in comparisons etc I find the Dynojets one of the most consistant and trust worthy dynos. Yes they read higher than DD (in saying that, there are heaps of people using DD dynos set up to read engine power - the results are coming out quite a bit higher than Dynojet read), but anyone with half a brain can take that into consideration - or just compare the results with other cars on the same kind of dyno, -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
To be fair, comparing a T04Z and twin -5s isn't fair if you're going to draw a conclusion on twins versus single. The -5s are full GT series turbos running the famed NS111 turbines. In contrast the T04Z is right from the start rated to a reasonable amount higher power level than the -5s - go for a pair of twins rated to more power than -5s and you should expect more lag so I'd say the same should apply to comparing a twin setup to a single rated to more power. The T04Z is also basically just an old T-series Garrett turbo that has been gifted with a ball bearing core, the wheel design is hardly cream of the crop. I had in my head you had something of a nightmare with EFR turbos in the past, is this past history? -
There were a few who always knew MHI turbos were fine, but there is a group mentality which I suppose is always going to happen on forums which is whats going on here. The fact that the MHI turbos are becoming trendy shows how behind the times this place is, if they (/Kando) are being considered as class setting for any reason other than value for money. I've been LONG a fan of the MHI turbos where the application suits, we specced and used a TD05-16G off an EVO on an RB20DET in 2005 over peoples recommendations for various Garrett/HKS units and it turned out really really well. When I was looking into turbos Trust were the only options I saw viable to me for a Mitsi based turbo, and it would have been a 20G if I did it - iirc there was no internal gate option so it would have been a turbo kit north of $5000 at the time which just wasn't going to happen. Anyone who has got a GT3076R shouldn't regret not getting a TD06-20G or 25G imho - I still view it as a better balance, though there is a shrinking gain vs money spent... particularly now Kando are doing these things. They have certainly made awesome performance very affordable!
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You talking to me like I'm an idiot... then spouting the above is a bit much for me. The problem with debating with an idiot is they drag you down to your level and beat you with experience, so that circle ends here - regardless of who the idiot may be.
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Fwiw HKS, Kando, Trust never gave out compressor maps that I am aware of. People in the Kando thread are talking about getting anti-surge housings for their turbos, I've never seen a compressor map from Mitsubishi with an aftermarket modified housing - which WILL affect the map. So how did people in there decide on their combinations?
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I would never be the first person to ever try a particular turbo out, unless it was completely for free. Obviously I'd ideally have compressor maps etc etc, but we can ascertain quite a bit from observing how other setups have handled these. For example, from when I have plotting compressor maps for 4G63s and RB25s/26s etc the trend I've found is that a 4G63 would require a lower surge line than RB equivalents - I spend a lot of time looking into how 4G63s perform with different turbo combinations partly because my next fast car will probably use one, and partly because if a 4G63 doesn't surge with a particular combination then an RB25+ is very unlikely to. My bigger concern with not having compressor flow maps for these turbos is that I don't know how the comp efficiency lines fall over in flow vs PR, having seen how peaky some modern wheels are I'd be a bit concerned about the possibility of deciding a particular setup needs 62lb/min at 1bar of boost and ending up with the equivalent of of a GTX3076R, which loosely speaking CAN flow near 65lb/min but it will only even think about flowing 60lb/min at 1.4bar of boost. Observing dyno results and real world performance you get a good idea of the window of efficiency, for example if an EVO can run 40psi through a PT6266CEA and not surge and a Supra can make >700whp on 30psi with the same unit on E85 - or 600whp on pump gas at 22psi, then its a very safe bet that an RB25 is going to fit between both in terms of choke line and surge line.
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You'll typically know when your turbo is surging. I've lost a bit of faith in compressor maps after seeing Garrett release multiple versions of its "same spec" GT3071R and GT3582R compressor maps, I wouldn't be surprised if there were other turbos out there which they've done that with as well - but when a compressor map changes for a compressor wheel design which hasn't it rattles my confidence. To some degree the risk of surge for a given power level is quite a lot lower, engines breathe a lot better and compressor maps are typically wider than they once were - there is SO much information out there on how different combinations work on different cars that its easier and more reliable to see how a particular turbo worked on an engine of certain displacement/VE/etc than to pull out a ruler and a calculator and do some semi-educated guessing based on assumptions using information which may or may not be entirely accurate.
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I assume there was a conversation happening somewhere that you felt your input was important enough to warrant its own thread? I feel that GT4088Rs are more or less redundant these days anyway, so many other turbos around that do everything that they can do or better.
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Engine spec? Fuel? Preferred boost level? Please clarify 500 what? Hp @ engine, at wheels, or kw??