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Everything posted by Lithium
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[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Seems the EFR turbos don't need E85 to make good numbers - another Kiwi lad had his RB30DET R32 GTR tuned running a .92a/r twin scroll EFR8374 today on BP Ultimate, 462kw @ hubs on 20psi... full boost by 3300rpm. Not too shabby! -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
I think it was just that they were aiming for an EFR7670 from the start, and ended up getting a GTX3076R to get going because of the huge waits for getting an EFR - or something to that effect. The test wasn't to because they were doing a shoot out, more just a result of having both turbos. I know they've had a twin scroll GT3582R as well, I might see if they ever tried that on the Subaru.... -
[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
It'd be an awesome ride, eh? I'm not sure how you could expect that to be smoother while being able to make 300kw by 4500rpm using only 2litres. -
I think it had previously run larger ATP twin scroll housings which had failed, I can verify that and manifold changes.
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Really, how so? It outspools the GTX and makes more torque everywhere even running slightly less boost at points - the dyno plot I put in the EFR thread shows its also seeming more keen to make more power. Its basically like a slightly bigger turbo than spools slightly better and is a fair bit more responsive than a GTX3076R, making 200awkw by around 4200rpm on a 2litre on the way to making 415awkw with more to come. Its not a bad result.
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Just out of interest, here is a comparison done by E&H Motors in NZ using their 2litre track spec STI on the same boost level using E85 of a twin scroll GTX3076R versus a twin scroll EFR7670:
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[Closed] Borg Warner Efr Series Turbos
Lithium replied to Lithium's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
E&H Motors in NZ have just released results of their testing with a twin scroll GTX3076R versus a twin scroll EFR7670 on their 2litre STI track car - worth noting that these results are not "all in", they have a stronger motor which will be used for that in future. From what the owner/tuner says it seems the EFR is much nicer to drive, and it sounds a bit like the EFR was seeming more eager to keep making more power. Dyno plots: -
Tempted to forward this to Link and see what they have to say about that.
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Awesome, I really wish I had pulled finger and sorted heading over for this - was just speaking to Robbie Ward (RIPS) who is about to head over to watch and looking forward to the event... sounds like its going to be an awesome one in general, and for Nissan representation. Good luck all, go hard - and keep us posted on how you go
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Oh yeah, in other news I did some road tuning this weekend on a GT4 Sillycar running a built 3SGTE (268deg cams) and a GReddy TD06-20G - was making 1bar around 4300rpm from what I could tell and had a fairly solid pull to it even on the road tune... at least compared to other GT4s I've been in. I expect to get it on the dyno in the next few weeks, and we're going to go up to 25psi for the glory tune (won't be typically used at that boost level). Tuning it on a hub dyno, any guesses on what we might expect?
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Ok got you, fair enough - sorry took that wrong, and agree. I would love to see both the T67 and GT3076R taken to "all in" levels, or was the T67 maxed out in this instance? And why was the GT3076R taken to "only" 17psi? I'm guessing that it didn't max out there...
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No idea why you think you need to tell me this. I think it is more or less out of the question that it would be out of flow at 17psi on a mild RB25, tbh.
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More power, naturally - they certainly won't be choking at 17psi on an RB25 like that. Makes the comparison a bit difficult that the octane rating and boost level are slightly out, but I still feel the likely overall result all things being equal is the GT3076R will come on earlier, and fall over a little earlier earlier (as my opinion has been the whole time) and that looks credible from that comparison.
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Not the only difference, Simon's was running a bit more boost too if I remember rightly?
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Interesting that you mention that, someone I know hit 400awkw on E85 at around 22psi with his unopened <100,000km old RB26 and coolant started escaping places it wouldn't, I had thought it should be reasonably safely doable too... good to know there are plenty of others which have done so fine.
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Nice, very interested to see where it comes in - I've always had it in my head the PT6262 would be on the laggy side, though never been sure. If it can be all in before 4500rpm then that'd be fantastic
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Very nice, shame its a stock motor as its probably not going to be able to show its real strength. I am assuming its a ball bearing 6262, and you are going to tune for E85?
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Fuel doesn't have any idea how many cylinders the combustion chamber its being squirted into is joined up to Ultimately the harder the work the fuel has to do, the more E85 comes into its own... but you can still definitely get gains. I've seen from 3-7% from E85 on a naturally aspirated engine, depending on a variety of things. The most magical results I've seen are on highish compression turbo setups running a bunch of boost though. With a relatively stock V8 I'd say the extra fuel usage would outweigh the gains, unless you have exhausted all alternatives and not worried about the ~35% extra fuel usage - and the fuel system upgrade you are likely to need to do to support that fuel usage. If you were going to drop a decent turbo or two into the mix then E85 very quickly starts coming into its own.
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^ I am also very interested to know where he's coming from, or going with that....
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Built 26, Best Single/mani Combo For Around 370Kws ?
Lithium replied to bri73y's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Thats really interesting, how much of the rev range do the -5s hold ahead? Is there any chance you were revving the car higher when using the -5s? I've seen a bit of both - to be fair, dynos really can be very misleading... I mentioned earlier in the thread about a case where we compared two cars with equivalent spool, but one had 20kw more (310kw .63 GT35R versus 290kw .82 GT30R) where the car with the bigger turbo had virtually no point where it was lacking in power, yet the GT30R gave the quicker car. I wouldn't want to call it on these combinations, I'm pretty confident the PT5857 would be laggier - though in saying that, I know GT3582Rs work quite nicely on RB26s and the PT5857 SHOULD be less laggy, so realistically it would probably be one of the better options. Just bare in mind that is assuming you go for a ball bearing one. -
Built 26, Best Single/mani Combo For Around 370Kws ?
Lithium replied to bri73y's topic in Engines & Forced Induction
Will be interesting to see what you go with, and the results - have you made a decision? Re: The PT5857 results, they look really good... and had thought about suggesting that one, but didn't because it starts shooting in territory closer to the GT3582R in power, and obviously response. ie, capable of well eclipsing 370kw on E85. If you are "only" going for ~370kw then the extra pull up top you are seeing in those dyno plots (which are using US 91 octane) may not really make themselves as obvious when you are using E85 and a lower boost level. I was shooting for the "torque wins races" end of the scale, and equivalent power for equivalent power the PT5857 will argueably be slower than some of the "smaller" choices. If you want to shoot for a power level past what the smaller ones can do however, the PT5857 starts becoming a wicked choice. Threads like this are a bit tricky, because a lot of these turbos haven't been tried on RBs and I have no idea which turbo you are going to be using or what boost level you're actually going to target etc etc etc. So many variables, so "results may vary". I like where you're heading with it though, and keeping an eye out on how it all turns out. Did FullRace come back with a suggestion? -
Ahh cheap nasty goodness, pass - who knows what you'll be getting.
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Unless its a chinese knock off, which often do not follow any real naming conventions (ie, T70s with 61mm compressor inducers) the T-series use compressor inducer size in mm as an identified, ie - T61 = 61mm inducer, T66 = 66, and so on. It'd most likely be a Garrett or Turbonetics (who have been price cutting lately, they'd only be able to sell behind the times turbos for a premium for so long) turbo. The short of it, it will be big old school truck spec wheels rated to in the area of 700hp and likely to have plain bearings. T67s are the ones which coincide with GReddy naming, the Garrett T67 (aka T04R) are a pretty big stick compared to the GReddy T67.
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They are capable of way more power than a stock RB25, or 600cc can handle - and it will be laggy as hell, I've been in an RB30 running one and even that was laggy. Really bad match...