rev210

oops saw the 1 bar post. Now about those trust dumps...

Ronin 09, What boost did you end up running? Also, the trust dump pipes, where do you get them from?

Yes it does. I've been on that forum for years. Hows a ratio of 6 to 2? Thats how many guys I can think of (could be more against actually) who I know have had experience with these on that forum. 6 of them said 'avoid' and two said they liked them. The balance in the argument for reliabillity rests against the T517z. But, like I said before if you budget for a rebuild every once and a while it's not a big deal (although changing them is a bitch). The thread you pointed out has a grand total of one owner of T517s' putting forward a reccomendation on boost levels for a newbie. Hardly case making. gun-r32, That makes the HKS 2530 or GT-SS an easy choice then. Again the power comes in early with either of these and they are a great street turbo setup, with the occasional drag race thrown in. Power wise you can get away fairly cheaply (its all relative though) on the drivetrain and suspension setup to cope. And ultimately a bit of carefull selection in the suspension and tyres should see you nip close to high 10's.

More Pic's The interior is now 'clean' the pics have it looking a bit dusty. Ditto for the engine bay.

gun-r32, Having crapped on so far I have not asked what you want to do. So what do you want to do? If it's track work we can point you in the direction of guys who really do this who will basically tell you to go for something 'garret' be it a HKS turbo (yes garrett make all the bits) , an N1 (garrett parts again) or a garrett off the shelf retail turbo. The fastest turbo charged track GTR's all run a garrett bastard of some kind, should tell you something. Sydneykid on this forum is someone who is into this. Personally I like the GT-SS concept given they reputedly deliver full boost 1,000rpm lower than the R34 N1's with the same sort of peak power. Ulitmately to cut through the hype and conjecture in this thread just talk to actual GTR owners who have had these turbo's and get some more insight.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...ght=macka+drags Remember this thread.....ahh the good old days.

Ok, I think I need to be more clear as to what I mean. After all words often fail us. I will address your responses in order if I may. First, I base my information on the less reliable trust turbo from peoples experience who actually owned trust and mitsubishi turbos (one and the same) and from a more general base of those who have owned any kind of plain bearing turbo. I think I should have made clear the fact that I don't think Trust turbo's are prone to breaking down prematurely when used correctly. On the other hand they quite understandably require more frequent rebuilding than my experience with a correctly built and used ball bearing turbo. I think we ought to avoid talking about freak failures, since this does not paint an accurate picture. But rather 'best/average case' examples where the most time has passed before a rebuild is required. In this case I can name a fair number of people I know who have rebuilt their plain bearing turbo's, including a trust units within a reasonable space of time. Did they rebuild them every year? Not in every case and in those that did it was because the turbo recieved alot of boost when it was used and produced large amounts of power. A fact that will shorten the life of any turbo ballbearing or not. And again it's not something that the owners were suprised by it is very normal. Ballbearing wise all I can say is I know plenty of people who have done enormous numbers of kms without a sign of any wear and I can't recall knowing anyone who needed a rebuild on one to date due to normal wear and tear. If you want a thread with a discussion on real gtr's and no 'tuning shop talk'; http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthre...ead.php?t=21242 This would put anyone off when it comes to deciding between the two turbo's. Unless you are prepared for rebuilding them as a normal event. http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...highlight=T517z Which some people like at least understand, and make an informed choice. Cheap to rebuild just more frequently. Another thread page that shows the average power delivery on HKS vs trust and why they kick ass. http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...highlight=T517z As for comparing apples with apples. We aren't doing that are we? I was pointing out that water cooling is a good idea, and the Trust/Mitsubishi turbos don't have it. So cooler turbo bearings mean less wear and I'm sure you agree. At least then you could agree that a turbo regardless of it's bearing style benifits from cooler bearing temps by prolonging it's servicable life. You are perhaps not aware that plain bearing turbos can have water cooling, the most obvious example I can point out to you is an R32 GTR. Now about the inertia example what I meant was the resistance to movement is greater in a plain bearing turbo due to friction. By 'exactly the same design' I meant the same housings/turbine etc. I don't think you disagree that a ball bearing provides less resistance than a plain bearing. So I'm sure you will agree that if a turbo is equiped with a ball bearing it will more freely spin. Why wouldn't you buy a turbo you can boost higher? Well for a start I think about the higher intake temps and the fact that I might have a stock engine. You know there is more than just " compressor maps " to look at. If you have your eyes fixed on the boost capabillities I am afraid you are looking at the horses arse not it's teeth. As for generic ballbearing Garret turbo's they are good enough for every form of high level (and dollar) motorsport including Indy car racing ( a sport I have involvement in ). They do if fact produce the HKS turbo's under contract as with the many various other motor racing teams that contract them and their custom housings and so on, as such these parts and info are not made availible to the general public. Having said that garret do strive to make excellent matched turbos for the masses, that perform outstandingly with the most recent examples showing as much potential as some of the rearched offerings from HKS. A local example of how they shame the Trust turbo's can be found in Pete's GTR. 530rwhp and a very nice curve, better than I've seen from a set of 517z's anywhere on pump fuel.

They tend to run a tad rich down low. Don't go driving around with them too much before a tune or your end up with fowled plugs.

I would strongly suggest a camshaft upgrade to cater for the larger displacement. There are far greater benifits again for doing this to a big breather like the RB30 hybrid. The Rb30 should quite happily live with larger cams than an Rb25 and the spread of power increase will be more than worth the expense. Even if you go for the pon cam 260deg 9mm lift units, which should not tax the factory springs much given the rpms are lower and the lift not too radical, and the gains will be substancial over the nanna grade cams the Rb25 has from factory. Even if you had an Rb25 stocker a cam upgrade does wonders when it's set up right.

The Plain bearing T517Z's are far less reliable than the GT style ball bearing turbos. Plain bearings have far higher friction than ball bearing = lots more heat. The Trust turbos are not water cooled = more heat. More heat = more wear. More wear = less time before failure. On top of that the ball bearing turbos response time is faster over the exact same plain bearing design. Also the lower the boost pressure the better. If I can acheive the same horsepower at a lower boost why wouldn't I go that way. Longevity is effected on everything with higher boost not just your turbo, this is true of any turbo including the trust units. Boost = heat. Having said that the guys at Trust have chosen good matches of housings, compressors and turbines despite the fact that they are done on the cheap, they don't pass on the saving to you though.

The notorious V8 power Volvo is now sadly sheduled to leave the family. My family has grown so I can't fit them all in my shiny red wagon anymore so I must sell it. For someone in Perth who wants to continue the legacy of the ulitmate sleeper see my thread in the for sale section ; http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...ead.php?t=70719 Having a car like this was a great experience . It was hilarious to drive around, cost as little to run a 4cyl , was safe and totally scarey for all other road going vehicles to encounter (except trucks). Are there any others with 'sleeper' family cars who would like to share their story of 'parting greif' in this thread?

The power curve is like many of the higher output RB25's. At above 4500-5000rpm there is a noticable difference between those that can and those that can't produce this power engine wise. I dare say that the condition of the ignition coils / wiring has the largest part to do with many Rb25dets being unable to produce higher outputs, given that the tuning of the engine management follows a similar map. I think investigation down this path might actually clear this up for those who aren't able to get the power up top.

Some one asked about plugs? Usually you run a colder plug and go for one with a decent size grounding strap, the NGK copper plugs all seem to be ok. That means no iridium/platinum or any self cleaning style plugs. The BCP 7's I found to be quite ok.

Open to Offers

Every motor has a power limit and an rpm limit. The amount of nitrous suggested by 2rismo + his existing base power without gas is arguably within the power limit of the RB25det engine components. Therefore the longevity is not in question if the comarison is made bewteen a turbo upgrade of the same total power. The rpms required by the nitrous shot are typically lower and the intake charge temps are lower giving another advantage to a nitrous system in terms of wear. The ongoing costs are hardly an issue for someone who wants to race a car.As they say.." if you want to save your pennys go and buy yourself a moped". Tyres and fuel alone cost enough to turn some people off. Not to mention the clutches, gearboxes and diffs. I actually believe 2rismo may crack a 10.99 second pass with the larger shot he is now runing (although he doubted me last time I said this) since the torque difference over his last setup should be massive. Of course that my call not his. 10lbs of gas lasts longer than you think . When you actually own a car with a kit on it you keep feeling it's such great value for money every time you flick the switch Just ask anyone who has had a well setup kit on thier car and I'm sure they will tell you the same. This thread is all about learning. So I hope we can add some info to your as yet incomplete understanding of nitrous use for performance.

I have had to upgrade the family car for seating capacity reasons so I am selling the beloved Volvo. I have a 7 seater 4wd now so there must be room made in the shed. NOW $8,000 ono !!!!!!!!!!!! This is the original 'Sleeper'. And is an absolute blast to drive. The V8 is loud and proud and gives the people around you fair warning that something is drastically wrong in the land of the Abba. 1977 Volvo Station Wagon ; Ferrari red. Electric windows/ power steering/ Sports Streering wheel & Dash with tacho also including center guages for oil pressure, volts etc. The Car sits lowered and has heavy duty front coils to cope with the V8. It has Volvo factory alloys with Pirelli Drago P5000 tyres. Engine: Holden V8 - 308cui Red motor With the usual bits...... L34 Pistons Ken Waggott Con rods SPS rod bolts Roller Rockers High Volume Oil pump L34 Valves Edelbrock Manifold Mild camshaft Gilmer Drive K&N Filter Davies Craig Thermo Fan Extractors Single mandrel bent 3 inch exhaust. Induction: Duel Fuel Sprint Gas LPG system. Modified Rochester carby. Trans: Turbo 350 High volume pan Stage 1 shift kit Standard stall B&M Quick Shifter (mega shifter). Heavy duty Trans cooler Diff: Dana LSD This car is fully engineered and licenced with the V8. The Gas conversion included a custom modification to the chassis to fit the tank under the car so as to leave the boot space free. Considering the power this car has and the amount of fun you can have with it, the LPG makes it as cheap to run as a 4 cylinder. Not to mention the safety of the Flying brick design. I have quite a number of spare parts to go with the car and I also have a big Speed Pro cam that will drop straight in should anyone like a bit more power. I will take others of the Engine Bay and things later on if people are interested. PM me for more info

Nothing wrong with NX kits. The guy who you use to tune the kit might suggest one brand or another but, if you can tune on you can tune them all I guess. The advantage may come if they have extra jets lying around to get the right size sussed.

I seemed to remember I liked toluene at the time and so being on the rich side was a bonus since it likes a slightly richer AF ratio. I kept / lost the two I was using before the car was off the road. Those were a bit bigger again, 120 for the ones I sent over sounds about right. Did you try those jets at all? I seem to remember cautioning you Benm, The fuel pump/ exhaust is really the only two areas of initial concern. My old bunky had the factory intercooler.Nitrous actually drops the intake temps quite alot by itself.

michael, What are you wanting to do? The duel stage kits look to me like more pain tuning than the benifit. Traction is easy to control it's your right foot. If you don't plant it to the floor the micro switch doesn't activate the kit and you don't go sideways (as much), that's my veiw. the shot is best plugged in once you have a few rpm on the board and are at least moving forward. In the first place letting it all happen a very low rpms is asking for bent rods due to the massive torque plus it just makes burnouts that much easier.

Strutto, I had a NOS brand Fogger nozzle (2rismo will know which one because I have forgotten) plumbed in just before the throttle butterfly underneath the alloy pipe that goes over the spark plugs (in fact probably just above the pugs). The solenoids were mounted right onto it . Consequently I did not use the spark plug cover the RB25det normally has to accomodate. The solenoids were mounted hard up against the fogger so as to minimise the lag time between the activation and effect and also the shut down time. This is the time taken for the fuel and nitrous to travel to the nozzle and then for the remaining nitrous and fuel between the nozzle and solenoids to be consumed. My nozzle was so situated and hidden to avoid unwanted attention it need not be mounted that way. This setup meant that I could full throttle a little closer to the normal power redline without the usual "off the throttle but- it still keeps reving" senario that usually scares the poo out of you the first time it happens. Worse is the direct port setup for this if you don't get the lines short enough. oops I went on a bit there... The jet sizes . I'll have to check what I ended up (fuel and nitrous) with before I sold the kit to 2rismo. Conservatively I'd say it was about 140rwhp worth, based both on the sizes and the consumption of gas. Sizing the jets is critical. All I can say is the chart for jets is only a 'GUIDE', I think NOS is good enough to point this out on it's pages. One very big factor is fuel pressure. From memory and someone can check the charts for EFI most often take 40psi of fuel pressure as a given for the jet matches, for use in perhaps a NA EFI motor. This is not assuming a rising rate situation, so unless you set a static fuel pressure for a dedicated line of 40psi you can safely assume the sizes are completely wrong. You have to know what the fuel pressure is when you are at full boost as a starting point then test the jets flow per minute at that pressure to make a guesstimate of the right size to use. The other big factor is the brass 'flared' jets used by NOS being a little inaccurate. This is why they have a 'saphire' range that cost a bomb for the sake of accuracy. I dont have jewlers equipment/measures so I tend to lean towards flow testing, doesn't take too long.

For those wanting to ask questions about nitrous kits and those who would like to contribute their experiences here is your thread! One question I have been asked a fair bit; Question: I have a GTST and was wondering if I need to change/re-map the factory ecu to fit a nitrous kit. Answer: No you don't need aftermarket management, it's always nice to have since you can tune the ignition and fuel maps for better non-nitrous base power and fine tune your ignition map for the nitrous activation but, it's not necessary for kits that add under 200hp. I had a GTST for example with what some might consider a rather large shot and a factory ecu. Having said that I also ran (as one always should) a big fuel pump to allow for the additional fuel requirements of the nitrous kit. A larger fuel pump may upset the fuel maps a tiny bit however I did not find this to be the case when I used mine. I should add that base timing needs to be retarded a few degrees but, this can be done via a CAS adjustment using a timing gun. If you have a Power FC or something similar it's easy-peasy to do the adjustment without leaving the drivers seat, again you don't need an aftermarket ecu but, they are nice aren't they Next....?

I think I'll start another thread now since there is enough interest, I answer the question on the ecu EVL 33.

I was wondering if there is much support for having a nitrous thread along the lines of 'How to' ? I thought it might be good since people like myself get quite a few PMs asking for info on this subject and I know there a a couple of others who have experience on different applications who I am sure would like to contribute.

start a new skyline forum?

Aaah yes glory days Not much has changed forum wise. I think it's a little more organised than it was. Bitching is about the same, just different people and issues. I remember when I suggested that a fairly stock R33 gtst could go under 14's easy on the plex I got some discouraging feedback from some of our longer standing members. I think Rob77 got into plenty more arguments when he towed the same theory. After I got the times everyone of those guys gave me the thumbs up. Since then there have been quite a few people do the same thing. I think the WA section still has plenty of great people on board. The longer people hang about the better it is for new members when they have a question or two. There are quite a few guys who don't own skylines anymore who still contribute. The reason we often suggest newbies do a search on a topic is precisely why this forum is a good as it ever was from an information point of veiw. Although I don't get much out of it, it's been great to add to it over the years.