Intercooler - Myth? Or Fact?

[QRI05E]

Seeing as my next step is to install a FMIC on my R33 GTSt, I have been trying to research wether a FMIC would actually increase my cars current power output or not. Many sceptics say that a FMIC won’t increase any power but will only be a supporting modification to allow higher power output. Interestingly enough, I was looking into fitting a Hybrid GT spec kit and thought to share some of the claims Hybrid have made.

www.hybrid-power.com

Claims that with their Monster Bar & Plate Cooler kit for a skyline, have achieved a typical Gain: 25-30 rear wheel kilo watt (RWKW) with no other mods!

www.powerdigger.com

Claims:

MY01 Subaru WRX with the factory ECU boost controller gained 15aw/kw (40kw gain at engine)

Holden Calais VL Turbo gained 50rw/kw in the mid range of about 3250rpm with only 12 psi of boost.

Ford BA XR6T gained a massive 17% power of 30kw (about 50kw power gain at the engine) with standard boost.

Please visit the Hybrid websites to view their full claim along with dyno results.

Would anyone like to comment on these claims? Im intrested to see what your opinions are on this issue.

Regards,

Sarkis

[Mr. Oizo]

Colder air = Denser air, denser air = more air, more air = more power

but also, if the intercooler is designed poorly, it might have very bad flow which would be bad

[2BNVS]

i gained 20rwkw on the dyno from putting a hybrid cooler and from 10psi to 11psi

ben...

[QRI05E]

Thats excellent Ben!! so considering my car is 165rw/kw at the moment, I should be hoping to see 180 - 185rwkw after the FMIC? then with cold air intake and 12psi i should see nearly 190rw/kw? Im wondering where all those sceptics are? hahha

Cheers

[GTAAAH]

mm but larger pipes = slower airflow (although allowances for more), on a rb20 few people with stock coolers claim increases. If your turbo is capable of more and your intercoolers restricting the flow then yeh itll be a increase with a better cooler but if your coolers big enough already then putting a bigger one on could drop flow

my 2 cents

[NickR33]

I have the Hybrid GT kit and was dynoed at 166rwkw before the cooler and made 208rwkw after the cooler...

Disclaimer: different dynoes on different days so comparing results would be a waste of time however by the seat of the pants I can say it definately made a big difference once on boost and no noticable lag or loss of response... obviously not 40rwkw worth of difference but it was significant none the less

[QRI05E]

Hey R32 GTS-turbo, im comparing a Hybrid FMIC to a stock SMIC... it is intresting to see how so many people say that a decent FMIC wont make any power gain...

I would be WRAPPED if my car made 200+rw/kw after my FMIC lol

Considering my car pulled a 165rw/kw with misfiring coils and stock boost solenoid (7psi), and now i have new coils and turbotech set at 9psi... i might be making closer to the 170 - 175rw/kw??

I will deffinatly have a before and after power run to see the difference

[Yawn]

as said, it might increase power because of colder air but it depends if your running at the limits of the stock cooler. if you are you can expect a nice increase in kw because the cooler would be holding back the flow. however if you put too big a cooler on, fitting it might be a bad idea until you actually have the boost to make full use of the coolers bigger capacity.

[Fixxxer]

I'm sure Autospeed did an article a number of years ago, or maybe it was a tech article in a magazine I read. Essentially the stock intercooler (on R32's at least) as we all know are only designed to handle a specific flow rate, above that restriction sets in. The R32 SMIC performed badly after boost was raised/power increased, I think somewhere in the region of dropping 3-4psi more than a larger FMIC.

The larger FMIC allowed more flow with less resistance (more efficient) and is probably a fair bit more efficient in lowering intake temps = more power again.

I'd say get a FMIC, you may have a little extra lag, but up top there should be good gains, at least on vehicles manufactured with tiny intercoolers such as R32 GTST, R33 GTST, 200sx's, etc.

Fixxxer

[GTAAAH]

Yeh i gathered that you were talking about the advantages a FMIC would have over the standard SMIC.

Im putting a FMIC on my 32 gts-t tonight (JustJap one) ill post here tomorrow with some details, expecting slightly more lag (more air required to fill up the spaces) but also expecting it to cope with the boost a little better (running 2 psi higher than standard). Mainly changing it because ill be putting 33 turbo on soon and i know the SMIC definitely wont handle that.

Edited May 17, 2006 by r32 gts-turbo

[QRI05E]

I hope all goes well on your install gtst-turbo... let us know if it made any noticable power difference...

[illusiVe]

it also doesnt state the boost pressure used before they installed the intercooler.

[QRI05E]

On either the WRX or the XR6 its states the boost level was not touched... of coarse you may get an increase of 1 or 2psi due to the more flow and larger intercooler size. On powerdigger.com all the tested cars were stock and show the rw/kw increase when fitted with a hybrid FMIC...

[R33S2]

I dynoed in winter at 170kw in summmer 143kw, thats why I went to a bigger intercooler.

[BezerkR32]

Use the cooler but not the pipework, have some custom pipes made, preferebly with the long pipe before the cooler and short pipe after. can use standard piping down into inner guard, run turbo outlet around behind the cooler, and cooler outlet up to throttle body. the shorter cooler pipe will see you more power. Better quality kits use this system.

The Hybrid piping that runs up behind radiator is long and gets heated. Works more like a interheater.

These pics are from a VL with an RB25 but the same applies to Skylines and we've done the same to R33's.

[Cubes]

I have the Hybrid GT kit and was dynoed at 166rwkw before the cooler and made 208rwkw after the cooler...

Disclaimer: different dynoes on different days so comparing results would be a waste of time however by the seat of the pants I can say it definately made a big difference once on boost and no noticable lag or loss of response... obviously not 40rwkw worth of difference but it was significant none the less

I've seen this once before Nick.

It was on the tilbrooks auto and dyno, the car went from ~170 rwkw to 200rwkw, this was on 11psi.

The car was a bit of a freak and went on to run a 13.3.

Not all R33 ECU's are the same.

Before my R32 with a bit of boost and exhaust was quicker, after his fmic, well it wasn't.

On my R32 the FMIC picked up around 3rwkw with a little less response. The biggest difference as stated above was on hot days and or when giving it a hard run through the hills, more consistent power. Before it would tend to begin to feel flat.

[paulr33]

its all a myth. if you;

on the same day, on the same dyno, with the same settings (shoout mode locked)

dyno your car with the stock SMIC and get power figure A

dyno your car with the new FMIC and get power figure B

A will be the same as B

most people associate more power with a FMIC installation as they crank up the boost at the same time. ie: go from stock boost to 12psi and yeah you'll make 20rwkw of course, more PSI you dial on the compressor means more airflow. airflow makes power.

you will gain 0rwkw fitting a FMIC and nothing else

at least that certainly applies on a stock to mild card. if you had a 600HP car setup running on the stocker SMIC (highly unlikely) then moved to a suitable FMIC you would likely see some power gain as the stock SMIC would be a big bottleneck and offer no temperature drop or very little. so you just end up dialing in lots of heat. as soon as a FMIC was fitted you would get more temperature drop and you would effectively stuff more air in, as its denser air. i dont think this comes back to stock to mild cars however

[paulr33]

in fact if you fit a FMIC and no other changes are made to the car you should notice more throttle lag. this is because when you open the throttle each time you have to pressurize the larger core and pipework. this takes noticably longer than the stocker SMIC and its much shorter pipework system.

so if the inlet size increases and nothing else, then you should have throttle lag

[GTAAAH]

hmm keeping in mind the 33 and 32 coolers are quite significantly different i venture to say that, thats a generalisation and power gains are possible with mildly tuned vehicles running more than standard boost. The 32 cooler was made to handle 10 psi, not more. Adding a slightly larger FMIC would see more flow more cooling, less restriction and possibly some straighter bends (gotta remember that FMIC is getting alot more air on it and cooler air is more dense than hot air = bigger/ better combustion). Adding a huge FMIC, well as paul said, the bigger it is, the less throttle response. However I struggle to believe my SMIC on my rb20 will handle the high flowed r33 turbo i wish to put on it and would significantly restrict the turboes potential (That and if i was going by that theory then the pipes leading out of the cooler that were bent almost till closing point wouldnt need replacing on my stock - mildly tuned vehicle because bigger and more flow isnt better on a stock - mildly tuned vehicle)

Edited May 18, 2006 by r32 gts-turbo

[BSK]

what about cooler size? would a 400x300 perform better then a 600x300? as in less lag with still enough cooling surface area?