Metal Head Gasket

[Devils_Advocate21]

Starters im doing project on the s1 r33 gtst Maybe complete hopfully by Dec this year maybe sooner project to finances

Following are two lists one that ive got ready to go on and the other what ive already got on

List of mods to go in so far:

HKS 3037 Pro S Internal gated Turbo .68 housing yes i know small housing but thats what i got with it (Got it)

Bosch 040 Fuel pump (Got it)

Heavy duty clutch obviously (Soon sept i hope)

555 High flowed injectors (Got them)

Gates Strong Timing belt (Got it)

Catch Can (Later)

Z32 AFM (Soon) <<--- Will Get this when i forsee a goahead date on project

Projecting for (250 to 260 rwkws) We will see

Cams been an issue but will happen much later 2007

What i have on there at the moment

Apexi pfc

Hybrid EBC

3" Front/dump

Standart Series 1 Turbo

Cat I dunno what type this is if someone can pic a standard for me that would be good so i can see yes or no

3.5" cat back to tip

Coilovers(Soon be pissing these off one day)

Standard Injectors.

Standard Manifold

Running :178.9 rwkw (Before front/dump pipe install)

Now the question to be asked Head gasket as i ahve asked once before

Ok i got two sides here brands vs thicknesses

Ive heard that all i really need is the cometic metal standard thickness gasket, but yet ive seen people use metal gaskets with 1.2 to the range 1.6 mm head gasket, Now for cometic standard assuming it is 1.0 mm would it not hurt to go 1.2mm to all a little compression ratio difference say lower it for what i am aiming for or will standard be best suited for needs, im looking for the idea what would be best suited for my project also looking at the assurance for long term use out of motor, Also the next question would be part numbers anyone got some part numbers for the cometics for standard bore size?

Also another question would be, worth while taking on the challenge and do it myself and install the head gasket, the obvious thing here being that when i do firstly i would have clutch in and secondly i would install all the other components at the same time, and thirdly would have it towed to be tuned aswell, so risk of something going wrong minimized, or take it to someone to be done "Professionally" benefits of doing myself well at least i would save and 2ndly i would learn more about my motor.

Another question would be aswell who and where on southside or brisbane would be best to take it to for this to be done and costs if professionally would be best. Dan is probably always too busy

I guess an imput from people who have done this would be good as well on time dificulties involved in the removal and fitment of head gasket

Also would it be worth while to do the bolt upgrades to stronger ARP ones for the head?

If i do this myself i will do a D.I.Y Guide for it if peole want it if it hasnt been done yet.

OFFTOPIC to metal Head Gasket: Change manifold to stainless or stick with stock for time been

Awell Personal Opinions thoughts answers ideas all welcome

(The other thing is all parts that are taken off will be also sold off on the forums)

Cheers

Adam

Edited July 23, 2006 by Devils_Advocate21

[Devils_Advocate21]

anyone with anything?

[Col-GTSX]

Interesting question Adam.. I would like to se others opinions on this topic...

I am currentlly doing a similar conversion myself. Im using a GT30/40 high mount setup with a 0.8 rear housing.

Im going for a 1.6mm head gasket as i want to lower the compression a fair bit as i have a standard bottom end. I also want it this way so i can get some good top end out of the turbo... My use is for street and drag maby a little bit of circuit in the future.

But i am interested in what others say as i have not put allot of thought into this topic as yet as im still trying to get the clutch sorted out...

[BezerkR32]

not sure why you are doing any internal work to achieve 250-260rwkw. Standard engine will achieve over 300kw with standard internals, anyone telling you that you require internal work is kidding themselves. Standard Genuine Nissan head gasket is all you need, but if you decied to pull the head off anyway make sure you upgrade your valve springs as these are the first mechanical component to max out. You can then upgrade cams, run a kimetic gasket if you decide to change it. run thinner as to lift comp, which will help with mid range torque.

anyone with anything?

[r33_racer]

I would go a steel headgasket...safer then std nissan item and stronger obviously, alot of people go with it when tuning with more boost. Depending on who is tuning the car some may ask to go with a lower comp and some may say to leave it std 9:1. I know most tuners would prefer to drop it to atleast 8.5:1 because there is that safety margin to help reduce knock or any chance of it in the future incase something does go wrong. I think from memory a rb25 with 1.6mm gasket will give roughly a 8:1 CR or close to it.

[BezerkR32]

He only wants to make 250rwkw, not 400, why advise him to spend a thousand dollars if it is not necessary?

Boost or comp , tune to suit, higher comp = lower peak boost, and vise versa, i run 9.5:1 and 30 psi to make over 400kw, i would have to run 35-40 to make that power with 8:1 comp. and you loose mid range with lower comp. it is a street car after all. There are plenty of people making good power on standard internals including head gaskets on this forum. ask around? a few examples are Adrian Hodgson (2RISMO) making 265rwkw with 100 gas, Daniel Beer Making 285rwkw, Rob Brown Making 290rwkw, all street cars, all standard internalled, Jason is seeing well over 300rwkw and has run a 10sec pass in his car.

I would go a steel headgasket...safer then std nissan item and stronger obviously, alot of people go with it when tuning with more boost. Depending on who is tuning the car some may ask to go with a lower comp and some may say to leave it std 9:1. I know most tuners would prefer to drop it to atleast 8.5:1 because there is that safety margin to help reduce knock or any chance of it in the future incase something does go wrong. I think from memory a rb25 with 1.6mm gasket will give roughly a 8:1 CR or close to it.

Edited July 25, 2006 by BezerkR32

[r33_racer]

maybe those people have been lucky enough to find a tuner who can get those power figures safely without any knocking problems....ive seen other cars with those sorta power figures and have problems with headgaskets blowing through, or having excessive knock as a result of poor tuning with high CR. In this world nothing is ever certain. But techincally you are correct in that with those power levels a steel headgasket isnt required. I am more so leaning towards the a/m gasket as a safety precation. I think the steel headgasket i got last time was like 300 odd i think...cant remember now sorry.

Just offering advice in order to play it on the safer side. Im not trying to argue that your wrong and im right in anyway. I apologise if it was going that way.

[Devils_Advocate21]

True on a couple of points that i see here, yes being a street car and only looking to achieve the 250-260 rwkws mark even though i would most likely adhere to racers advise on this one "By droping the CR it would most likely achieve a lower knock level and also a saftey margin for future instances", internal work as such, well failure can come at anytime anywhere by anymeans as every motor is different and even though maybe different in small areas they are still different.

How i look at it is that if $1000 is going to save $5300 of rebuilding the motor well what option would be best to take, and also being the head gaskets dont really vary in difference in cost well why not the metal ones?

I guess a range of thicknesses and what compression they drop the motor would be good to see on this as well,

1.0mm = ? CR

1.2mm = ? CR

1.4mm = ? CR

1.6mm = ? CR

1.8mm = ? CR

2.0mm = ? CR

Im not doubting at all on the CR and the power that you are making at all Bezerk, and im not doubting that you can run standard nissan headgasket for such figures, but this maybe the case for a select few, also as you did say at the end it does come down to tuning at the end of the day.

Besides actually doing any internal work well at this stage im going from scratch hence why im only doing the head gasket and not say pistons rings bearings rods which may or may not happen later on down the track, so this im looking more a safe guard in why i would go metal headgasket,

I guess also the more imput that comes from this will clearly show people which is the best and safer option all in the upper power range.

And also on the path ofhead gaskets? Should i do it myself save $700 + or take it to "professionals" and has anyone else done it them selves "trobles dificulties?"

Thanks for input so far guys

Adam

[BezerkR32]

i understand where you guys are coming from, but putting a metal headgasket in is not the fix for poor tune,

now the detonation will brake ring lands instead of blowing the head gasket. so if you think lowering comp ratio is the way to eliminate knock your going the wrong way about it. good luck with it, but if i was splitting my engine id be doing more than replacing the head gasket.

True on a couple of points that i see here, yes being a street car and only looking to achieve the 250-260 rwkws mark even though i would most likely adhere to racers advise on this one "By droping the CR it would most likely achieve a lower knock level and also a saftey margin for future instances", internal work as such, well failure can come at anytime anywhere by anymeans as every motor is different and even though maybe different in small areas they are still different.

How i look at it is that if $1000 is going to save $5300 of rebuilding the motor well what option would be best to take, and also being the head gaskets dont really vary in difference in cost well why not the metal ones?

I guess a range of thicknesses and what compression they drop the motor would be good to see on this as well,

1.0mm = ? CR

1.2mm = ? CR

1.4mm = ? CR

1.6mm = ? CR

1.8mm = ? CR

2.0mm = ? CR

Im not doubting at all on the CR and the power that you are making at all Bezerk, and im not doubting that you can run standard nissan headgasket for such figures, but this maybe the case for a select few, also as you did say at the end it does come down to tuning at the end of the day.

Besides actually doing any internal work well at this stage im going from scratch hence why im only doing the head gasket and not say pistons rings bearings rods which may or may not happen later on down the track, so this im looking more a safe guard in why i would go metal headgasket,

I guess also the more imput that comes from this will clearly show people which is the best and safer option all in the upper power range.

And also on the path ofhead gaskets? Should i do it myself save $700 + or take it to "professionals" and has anyone else done it them selves "trobles dificulties?"

Thanks for input so far guys

Adam

[r33_racer]

Yes, i would be doing more to my engine at the sametime also...but everyone is different, cant expect everyone to do everything the same.

The sad thing is though that poor tunes seem very common among alot of workshops, there are generally only a select few around who actually know what they are doing and you can trust them to give the car a full and proper safe tune...as opposed to alot of others who just simply wind up the boost and punch in as much timing as possible and turn off the knock/airflow warning and give ya the 350 horsies you wanted and tell you that the knock didnt get any higher then 30. Then after a while you can hear the rat a tat tat coming from the engine when you give it a squirt one warm day....ya check everything...it doesnt add up so you pull the bitch down and BAM! Holy bejesus batman! Where did my ringlands go??

[Col-GTSX]

I think ill have a chat to Matt Spry and find out what his throughts are on the topic...

I want to maintain a fairlly high comp ratio that way im not driving a lag monster and i can get good top end...

[Devils_Advocate21]

I think ill have a chat to Matt Spry and find out what his throughts are on the topic...

I want to maintain a fairlly high comp ratio that way im not driving a lag monster and i can get good top end...

Let us know how you go col at least it might shed sum light on this topic?

Cheers

[r33_racer]

The rb30det we have is running 8.3:1 CR and I cant tell the difference in off boost torque, but then again it did go up half a litre in stroke/capacity, so that probably countered it. But with rb25's from what ive been told the difference in real world actual feeling is bugger all apparently. This comes from a tuners mouth so yeh. Cant tell directly from personal experience.

[Col-GTSX]

I was not able to contact Matt today so ill try again tommorrow...

[carl h]

fwiw a cometic gasket will not seal properly unless the and block are finished to a near mirror shine and even then it may not seal properly, got a few ppl here stateside who have tried to run them and have problems with them.

std gasket FTW in my book, put some arp studs to hold the head down and i highly doubt it will blow out.

[Devils_Advocate21]

Thanks for your input carl well seems to be fairly interesting on that note, i would of expected more out of cometic but obviously not so im guessing the same would be for the leading brands "HKS and tomei" head gaskets would be along with the cometic on this aswell,

What about install, worth the hassel to do it my self or go get a techy to do it for $600 +?

What about the saftey margins on CR stock been the stock CR or best to lower it for tunings sake. So far seems to be the keep it stock.

Cheers

[carl h]

from reading and experience you will never have a problem with a japanese head gasket sealing properly, they were designed right from the get go.

[Devils_Advocate21]

Ahh good ol japs, you gotta admit at least they get things right, so col how did you go with matty spry get a hold of him yet, whats his opinion on this regard

Cheers

[Col-GTSX]

He says leave it standard until it needs replacement...

Then he said 1mm would be fine to maintain street driving... This way it keeps the comp ratio up and maintains low and mid range torque... He said you shoudl only go to a 1.6-1.8mm head gasket if your a horse power hero who wants big dyno figures and little to no streetable driving...

So in short...

1-1.2 mm for mild tunes (street driven)

1.4 for big turbos with low bottom end and fat mid range (track and high hp street use)

1.6-1.8mm for hp heros (drag and dyno)

[Devils_Advocate21]

Ahh cheers mate