Pfitzner (ppg) Dog Boxes, Reliable?

[Risking]

Ive recently had trouble with PAR boxes in a customers R33 GTR. Its making 420Kw and is having huge problems with 3rd.

Looking at the gear they start as a 2 peice gear, the actual gear itself then the syncro dog teeth are on a separate ring thats welded to the gear, In this particular case the welds are constantly breaking around the gear.

PAR don't want to know about the problem as you would expect.

They seem to beleive oh the box was built a few years ago and its normal for them to fail after a while.

My x misson box has been taking the same ammount of grunt for a while and Ive had no problems at all. Id expect the PAR box to be more than capable as well.

[Chris Wilson]

LoL, and thats JUST a fun track car! Hahaha. Thats gold hey.

Yeah, OK, so I tend to get a bit carried away with these things I dress like a tramp, don't have holidays, and do 99% of my own work, it's a kinda drug I guess

[Sydneykid]

I must say I didn't realise PPG did a sequential kit. Will this fit the R33 GTS-t casing, or is it for the Getrag casing? Thanks for all your feedback SK. The stock box is slowing me down a lot. The ratios are all to pot, second is too low, I never use first save for starting off, and the change into fifth is slow, and 3 rd and 5th synchros wear out for fun. I now NEED a decent gearbox in it, a proper weld in cage to get some tortional rigidity, and some more power, which should be addressed by an all steel RB26 lump which I have nearly completed. Once the cage is in I'll be a lot happier to fit some nice carbon doors i got vac moulded here in the UK at 2.8 kilos each, with full stock pattern internal shells. I feel too vulnerable without the stock steel doors with impact bars and no cage, particularly after stuffing it sideways into the barriers at Oulton Park last year...

We use Hollinger sequentials in the Hollinger case with the standard transfer case (4wd) or without (2wd) wherever the regs allow, I have never seen a PPG sequential.

You need an RB30, the standard gearbox ratios are fine with their power spread.

At the worst (2nd to 3rd & 4th to 5th) we logged around 2/10ths of second faster up shift with the dog box over the synchro box. At 30 odd gear changes per lap, it adds up to around 1/2 second per lap faster using the dog box, or the length of the straight in a 20 minute race.

We have to use standard panels, no lightweight stuff allowed.

A nice cage certainly makes you feel safer, plus it adds a bucket load of rigidity. We can come down ~25% in the spring rates once the cages go in.

cheers

[eXquiSit]

so par dont seem to b reliable in racing situations?

[STATUS]

Some pics of our synchro SR20 PPG, we opted for the billet selectors aswell as these are half the reason these boxes wont shift gears at high rpm.

Edited April 3, 2007 by URAS

[dontfeelcold]

In the first pic, is the shaft that is at the front of the pic one piece?

[STATUS]

In the first pic, is the shaft that is at the front of the pic one piece?

Nah it has to be removable for assy, but this is where the OSGIKEN gearsets were breaking (not sure where the PAR ones keep breaking). The OSGIKEN used the factory key way setup whereas the PPG uses a better spline setup (look under bearing you can just see it)

[dontfeelcold]

What about the 2 gears that are close together?

[STATUS]

What about the 2 gears that are close together?

the lower three are one piece.

[r33_racer]

for the ppg gearset in a rb25 5speed. With the 26t spline uprated input shaft you need to run the std size bearing(23mm i think) and shim it up. We tried to run the bigger bearing (26mm) but it pushes the input shaft 3mm too far into the box.

Thats what we have found out that was a slight issue with the gearset in the 25 box.

[Risking]

Typically the PAR (pressision and robotics engineering) boxes have a 2 peice gear. The gear itself is tough however the dog teeth section is made separatly and then fusion welded to the gear. Typically the ones ive seen have broken the welds and the syncro dogs simply spin on the gear.

The only good part about the PAR gear set is that the lay shaft (lower Gears) are actually modualar and can be removed from the shaft so it saves alot of time come repair and maintanance as you dont have to strip the whole box from the sandwhich plate to access individual gears and syncros.

[T04GTR]

does anyone know the distance between the lay and main shaft on a holinger 6 speed for the gtr? ie os88 is 88mm.... cheers.