Jim Berrys Full Monty And Ogura 4.8kg Clutch....good Combo?

[2rismo]

Sorry, I can't agree with the above.

Off the shelf, mass produced 'comes with a sticker though' clutch kits vs purpose built, constructed with the individual application in mind kits is a no brainer if you ask me.

[shanef]

Sorry, I can't agree with the above.

Off the shelf, mass produced 'comes with a sticker though' clutch kits vs purpose built, constructed with the individual application in mind kits is a no brainer if you ask me.

it's like pissing in the wind mate. no real point 'argueing' with the people that havnt seen a jb clutch or even spoken to him.

[Abo Bob]

i don't really agree 100% with that. I agree that lightening a standard flywheel is a bad idea. and I'd agree that when replacing a stock clutch plate and pressure plate with a new stock clutch plate and pressure plate that it's standard practice so machine the flywheel and there is no problem with it. BUT when replacing a standard clutch with an upgraded (more agressive) friction material, and replacing the standard pressure plate with one that has a much higher clamping force I would personally NOT reccomend re-using the stock flywheel. it's a bad idea in my book.

What is bad about it?

I also don't see how off the shelf clutches could possibly be better for 99.9% of the applications. My Jim Berry clutch is easy to drive, not too heavy, holds 272rwkw, smashes drive shafts, cost only $1000 delivered, came with lifetime free advice from a genuine expert. What's better than that? Adrians did all that mine does plus it lasted a long time under serious racing conditions. What's better than that?

[raz0r$harP.UK]

Stock flywheel is cast right? If so, are there any billet ones off the shelf which are of similar weight to the stocker?

[benm]

I will put any money you care to name on the notion that benm's flywheel had a fault to begin with.

Of the 1 single piece of flywheel that I found left in my car (the size of a 20c coin) it shows evidence that their was already damage to it (cracked) before it decided to part company and land in the crowd (which ultimately - has cost me $20k).

For me personally after my experience if I was having a brand new aftermarket clutch installed i'd be spending the extra cash to buy a good aftermarket flywheel and a ballistic blanket too.

Edit: Oh and I wouldn't hesitate to use another JB full monty either.

Edited April 25, 2007 by benm

[Gts-t]

true if its for a circuit car only

put that car on the strip and have fun getting it off the line and keeping it on boost.

Your right it is a circuit car, that said i have no problem getting off the line and i have NO trouble whatsoever keeping it on boost.

Jim berry might be ok but at the end of the day he is there to take ur money not be ur mate, i have no doubt he would try and sell u somethig he makes or makes money on rather than what would do the job best etc.

[Beer Baron]

Failures in the factory flywheel where heavier than standard clamping loads were used are both:

A/ Few and far between

and

B/ Debatable as to whether it was even the clutch that caused the failure.

I have used one of Jim's clutches in my car for a very long (and very harsh) period and had no issues whatsoever. In fact, the clutch (without even being rebuilt) was fitted to another car once it was removed from mine and is still going strong to this day.

we will have to agree to disagree on this one. and I wasn't saying it's the clutches fault. the problem is the stock flywheel works well with stock clutches, using stock clamping load. you get a machined or lightened stock flywheel and put a more agreesive friction material against it, and add a much higher clamping load and then big revs, big power and it's not a recipe for hapiness. I'm not saying they will fail every time. your car alone is proof it's not the case. but i have seen it happen probably a dozen times now (no not all in skyliens obviously) and a few of those have been friends of mine. one recently was at Oran park on the main straight. bits of it flew through the trans tunnel, and then through the car roof too... so personally I would never risk it. it's just not a good idea. for the few hundred $$ a good flywheel costs, or even a kit that comes with a new flywheel i think it's a good idea.

by all means get the jim berry clutch if you think he is the god of clutches, but for your own sake put your standard flywheel in the bin.

[Beer Baron]

What is bad about it?

I also don't see how off the shelf clutches could possibly be better for 99.9% of the applications. My Jim Berry clutch is easy to drive, not too heavy, holds 272rwkw, smashes drive shafts, cost only $1000 delivered, came with lifetime free advice from a genuine expert. What's better than that? Adrians did all that mine does plus it lasted a long time under serious racing conditions. What's better than that?

adam mate, don't try and argue something with me I didn't say. I never said an off the shelf clutch was better. I simply said in my opinion re-using the standard flywheel with a clamping force tripple the stock one, and power double the stock engine is not a good idea. i never said jim berry makes a shit clutch. I think i've explained it enough as to why re-using the standard flywheel with a performance clutch in a performance application is a bad idea. talk to my friend bill how he felt about a piece of his flywheel grazing his hand on it's way through the cabin.

[2rismo]

Jim berry might be ok but at the end of the day he is there to take ur money not be ur mate, i have no doubt he would try and sell u somethig he makes or makes money on rather than what would do the job best etc.

He's been doing this for more years than you've been alive. You don't stay in business that long by being a d1ckhead. Have a chat to Jim for 5 mins (good luck, he likes a chat) and you'll see what we all mean.

[Abo Bob]

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post but the first line - What is bad about it? - was the only part directed at you.

The rest was directed at URAS cos he said off the shelf is better. I wasn't trying to argue either, just trying to find out if you knew why exactly a stock flywheel would fail in the circumstances you have described, like the kind of metal used or is it cast and aftermarket ones not or something like that. I don't know.

[Swiper the Fox]

Its been well documented how well a Jim Berry single plate worked in our race car...but...

If i were to use another one id go for the added insurance of using a billet (std size and weight) flywheel. Cars are repairable people aren't.

[Beer Baron]

Sorry I wasn't clear in my post but the first line - What is bad about it? - was the only part directed at you.

The rest was directed at URAS cos he said off the shelf is better. I wasn't trying to argue either, just trying to find out if you knew why exactly a stock flywheel would fail in the circumstances you have described, like the kind of metal used or is it cast and aftermarket ones not or something like that. I don't know.

lol, sorry i'm a bit dense, didn't read all the posts between mine and yours.

but yeah, it's not so much that it's a terrible thing to do. but like I said, stock flywheel with a/m clutch is not a wise idea. by all means get the jim berry clutch if you think it's the best option, just get a new billet flywheel to go with it. yes not all stock flywheels are just going to explode at random, but it does happen. and it happens enough to scare me of using one.

[benm]

I simply said in my opinion re-using the standard flywheel with a clamping force tripple the stock one, and power double the stock engine is not a good idea.

I agree 100%. It comes down to what is the next weakest link in your drivetrain, in my case it was the flywheel.

Edited April 26, 2007 by benm

[STATUS]

What is bad about it?

I also don't see how off the shelf clutches could possibly be better for 99.9% of the applications. My Jim Berry clutch is easy to drive, not too heavy, holds 272rwkw, smashes drive shafts, cost only $1000 delivered, came with lifetime free advice from a genuine expert. What's better than that? Adrians did all that mine does plus it lasted a long time under serious racing conditions. What's better than that?

Well every ORC ive had has factory pedal feel or lighter in single plates, outlasted the car offerred huge head room power wise and cost about the same.... 1000 for singles and 1500-1600 for twins... the twin in the supra handles 418rwkw all day long and is a cinch to drive.... i cant ask for anything else? i also dont need to worry about flywheels. i just think some people make a decison as simple as a clutch purchase to difficult. Sure jim berry's clutches are great and the lure of a lifetime warranty makes me feel good but honestley i cant think of one instance where a correctly installed ORC or OSgiken clutch has failed and ive used them for over 10years so....... ORC and OS realistically could offer the same warranty?

Edited April 26, 2007 by URAS

[Abo Bob]

Are you saying you get a single plate clutch that can handle, say 300rwkw, with a billet flywheel for $1000?

[STATUS]

Are you saying you get a single plate clutch that can handle, say 300rwkw, with a billet flywheel for $1000?

I hope you understand this is just general conversation, not me having a dig or anything.

all jap clutches come with flywheel as they are one and the same ie the flywhhel is an integral part of the clutch (far superior to the std flywheel type setup) and in ORC's case is usually at least 35% lighter than stock.

as for your question 300rwkw single plate and $1000 no (about $1100 for ORC twin) but your original post stated 280ish. anything over 290 rwkw i strongly recomend twin plate as you will get a lighter pedal and better progression..... ie near stock driveabilty. A decent twin will set you back say $1100 or $1500 odd for a carbon setup, i honestley have not used the carbon for extended street use so i cant comment on them but the std setup has provided me year upon year of perfect operation.

im not bein obtuse but a single plate clutch to handle 300rwkw in my type of environment would not last 6months regardless of warranty period. Even if it did handle it it the massive clamp pressure required on a single plate would be a pig to drive compared to the std ORC twin... it is simple physics.

Edited April 26, 2007 by URAS

[Swiper the Fox]

I hope you understand this is just general conversation, not me having a dig or anything.

all jap clutches come with flywheel as they are one and the same ie the flywhhel is an integral part of the clutch (far superior to the std flywheel type setup) and in ORC's case is usually at least 35% lighter than stock.

as for your question 300rwkw single plate and $1000 no (about $1100 for ORC twin) but your original post stated 280ish. anything over 290 rwkw i strongly recomend twin plate as you will get a lighter pedal and better progression..... ie near stock driveabilty. A decent twin will set you back say $1100 or $1500 odd for a carbon setup, i honestley have not used the carbon for extended street use so i cant comment on them but the std setup has provided me year upon year of perfect operation.

im not bein obtuse but a single plate clutch to handle 300rwkw in my type of environment would not last 6months regardless of warranty period. Even if it did handle it it the massive clamp pressure required on a single plate would be a pig to drive compared to the std ORC twin... it is simple physics.

sorry...two things...

have you seen how poorly sprung an "out of the box" Jap clutch is...the clamp is all over the place...have a look at one on a test bench...thats why they use multiple plates to make up for it. They are nicely manufactured but poorly set up. Even NPC ( who i now use ) only go as far as twin plates on their 1200 KW monster clutches. Jim can modify the set up on OS clutches to operate properly and has had good results from doing so.

i had a Jim Berry single in our race car ( 440-450 AWKW ) for over 3 years...so streetable my wife drives and races the car ( often better than i do ) ...picks up the daughter from school etc. You wouldn't know the difference from a stocker.

[2rismo]

so streetable my wife drives and races the car ( always better than i do ) ...

fixed

[STATUS]

sorry...two things...

have you seen how poorly sprung an "out of the box" Jap clutch is...the clamp is all over the place...have a look at one on a test bench...thats why they use multiple plates to make up for it. They are nicely manufactured but poorly set up. Even NPC ( who i now use ) only go as far as twin plates on their 1200 KW monster clutches. Jim can modify the set up on OS clutches to operate properly and has had good results from doing so.

I have seen several ORC clutches on test rigs and could not fault them, but i could not comment on OS gear as i have never witnessed one on a bench. i still stand by my other statements.

Edited April 26, 2007 by URAS

[Abo Bob]

I hope you understand this is just general conversation, not me having a dig or anything.

all jap clutches come with flywheel as they are one and the same ie the flywhhel is an integral part of the clutch (far superior to the std flywheel type setup) and in ORC's case is usually at least 35% lighter than stock.

as for your question 300rwkw single plate and $1000 no (about $1100 for ORC twin) but your original post stated 280ish. anything over 290 rwkw i strongly recomend twin plate as you will get a lighter pedal and better progression..... ie near stock driveabilty. A decent twin will set you back say $1100 or $1500 odd for a carbon setup, i honestley have not used the carbon for extended street use so i cant comment on them but the std setup has provided me year upon year of perfect operation.

im not bein obtuse but a single plate clutch to handle 300rwkw in my type of environment would not last 6months regardless of warranty period. Even if it did handle it it the massive clamp pressure required on a single plate would be a pig to drive compared to the std ORC twin... it is simple physics.

No probs here. What's your type of environment? I take mine track, drift, drag, street daily driver. Only been 5-6 months so far though.

Anyway, I had thought the Jap clutches were much more expensive than the prices you have quoted above and I put that in as a contributing factor. Ie; two clutches that do the same thing but cost substantially different makes the cheaper one a better clutch imo.

And finally, I think it was you who said people make the choice hard for themselves. It seems there is more than one way to connect your engine and your gearbox.

Richard, if you're still reading, any idea what kind of power levels the cars that you know of that blew a flywheel?