Classic Adelaide

[Roy]

Snowie...but im guessing a constant 4wd car will always be better in the wet then something like a Porsche AWD or GTR AWD system that changes drive to front depending on traction, as this would change the dynamics of the chassis mid corner/sweeper. Compared to an EVO whjich is constant awd so a little more consistant in its handling, all that to go with all its electronic trickery

[t01-100]

I classify the R spec tyre being bad in the wet and being all or nothing on the limit as old wives tales. Plus the thing about them only working when they get heat into them. Even cold they're in a different league to street tyres. As a hillclimber I'm very accostumed to pushing hard on cold semi slicks. I've driven on alot of different brands and all have been good in the wet - certainly better than normal street tyres. Only ever an issue with standing pools or running water.

RE55S are great in the wet. I was fastest outright on one hillclimb on a set of RE55S in my GTR. admittedly they were brand new, but there was water literally running down the hills we were racing on!

Do you guys increase your tyre pressures before starting wet stages?

Being a Skyline owner that has hillclimbed (won the odd event), circuit raced (state series runner up) and tarmac rallied (decent pace), I disagree.

Most R tyres provide much less grip than a good road tyre in the wet.

R tyres provide little warning of apporaching their grip limit unless you have good experience using them.

Most R tyres do require heat to get up to peak operating condition, even reasonable operating condition... that said I have tried the RE55 in the super soft/hillclimb compound and they are magic first up, but goes to mush within 3.5km at pace so usless in a rally.

The RE55 is old tech now, the Dunlop DZ03 is full generation newer in dry and wet performance, but the Kuhmo V70A is considered to be one of the best performers on the market currently.

[hrd-hr30]

Being a Skyline owner that has hillclimbed (won the odd event), circuit raced (state series runner up) and tarmac rallied (decent pace), I disagree.

Most R tyres provide much less grip than a good road tyre in the wet.

R tyres provide little warning of apporaching their grip limit unless you have good experience using them.

Most R tyres do require heat to get up to peak operating condition, even reasonable operating condition... that said I have tried the RE55 in the super soft/hillclimb compound and they are magic first up, but goes to mush within 3.5km at pace so usless in a rally.

The RE55 is old tech now, the Dunlop DZ03 is full generation newer in dry and wet performance, but the Kuhmo V70A is considered to be one of the best performers on the market currently.

I guess you'll be using one of those "good road tyres" instead of semi slicks in the next cold wet Targa Tas then? You'll clean up!

BTW - I wasn't using the super soft WT compound RE55S - the 'S' is just the later version of the RE55, not a compound. I just had the normal medium compound that was the Saloon Car control tyre (225/50*16).

Edited December 13, 2007 by hrd-hr30

[sav man]

we had re55s in targa, even on sth riana where it started raining 1/2 way through the stage (tyres were nice and hot when we hit the rain) the grip was awful, latril grip was alright, but acceleration was crap, even pointing straight the car was snaking under acceleration. I dunno how the Dunlop shod cars found sth rianna?

[Marlin]

Downright scary on 02G Dunlops Ben. Ecsta's the previous year however were awesome. Horses for courses I say. But as those involved know, one set must be chosen one day before you even run Prologue (qualifying).

And Stu, Kuhmo's are the last think you'd want to be stuck with in the dry now (** on a heavy car), much much slower that 03G's. But yeah, awesome wet tyre.

[t01-100]

hrd-hr30 - if there was tollerance to run more than four tyres at the event a set of deciated of roadies like potenza re001 for 'wets' would be an great idea for the stages you could forsee as wet. the super soft re55 i tried were the first sets of re55 bridgestone sold in australia when bridgestone motorsport cocked up the order in '03 - five cars (three gtr, one 200sxr and one gtst) all killed a set each at symmons plains in a morning at a state series round. don't remember much about them but bridgestone supplied a replacment set a few months later when the mediums arrived.

marlin - the kuhmo's held up well on ayersies 33 in the dry with solid times (even when he only had 2WD), they will be perfect for the nice light 7 (if i ever get it back from yt!)

[Marlin]

Stu, they'll be perfect for your 7 no doubt.

But I maintain they've been left behind in dry performance. We ran them on the 34 in 2006, and I don't think they would have got through if we weren't on badly cracked fron rotors from Cethana onwards, therefore cruising. Roseberry's surface just tore them to bits, in fact we were really worried they'd knock us at the lunch break tyre inspection!

After 2007's poor performance on 02G's, I was starting to think that maybe the Kuhmo's weren't too bad in the dry (if you could look after them), but after just doing Mt Buller and being able to run Kuhmo's and the new O3G's on TWO back to back runs, I'm sold on the Dunlops. 16klm stage, 16 second advantage exactly to Dunlops, twice.

(Not limited in tyre qty at Buller fortunately) The only question for me is wet weather, but seeing how badly smashed we were in the wet at Targa this year, anythings an improvement I say.

If my crystal ball told me that 5 days of Targa was going to be wet, I still reckon I'd run the Kuhmo's though .... maybe

[t01-100]

kuhmos only start coming on when they look stuffed! magic or rx7, m3, gtst.

i've not driven on 03's yet, but 02's were a cut above at the time so stands to reason they would be better than current crop.

[Marlin]

I agree with ya..... so stop bickering with me!!!!!!

jk jk

[t01-100]

...but its so much fun!

[hrd-hr30]

hrd-hr30 - if there was tollerance to run more than four tyres at the event a set of deciated of roadies like potenza re001 for 'wets' would be an great idea for the stages you could forsee as wet. the super soft re55 i tried were the first sets of re55 bridgestone sold in australia when bridgestone motorsport cocked up the order in '03 - five cars (three gtr, one 200sxr and one gtst) all killed a set each at symmons plains in a morning at a state series round. don't remember much about them but bridgestone supplied a replacment set a few months later when the mediums arrived.

marlin - the kuhmo's held up well on ayersies 33 in the dry with solid times (even when he only had 2WD), they will be perfect for the nice light 7 (if i ever get it back from yt!)

next time I do a wet event I'll bolt on my roadies just to demonstrate how much slower thay are. would have to be 2 sec per km conservatively. I can't believe people really think street tyres are better in the wet. Then again, I've met the odd bloke turn up at hillclimbs thinking their road tyres were the best thing to be on because "semi slicks won't get up to temperature".

My guess is you've never competed on a street tyre in any conditions?

Edited December 14, 2007 by hrd-hr30

[Marlin]

I for one never claimed streeters were better in the wet. I don't think they are. R spec (and I haven't tried ALL brands) in my experience are much better once up to temp, assuming you can actually get them up.

On the flip-side of that, in my experience with a Kuhmo V70A will out-perform ANY tyre in the wet from cold, but you then run the risk running these in the dry and overheating them.

I said previously;

a. R spec tyres are commonly less forgiving at the limit of adhesion.

b. R spec tyres can be very inconsistent in their grip levels on changable surfaces.

c. R spec tyres can be very difficult to get up to temperature quickly in rain or very cold conditions (sometimes impossible to heat).

d. This attribute above gives R spec tyres little "feel" when cold.

Road legal tyres on the other hand are typically average performers at everything, but they're typically consistent at least, and that's something that's easy for Average Joe to become accustomed to.

Now, re-reading that, I don't disagree with everything you're saying, but I don't necessarily agree with everything either. The point I was really trying to make was that street tyres will typically be poorer all round performers in all conditions, but at least they are consistently poor, which may go some way toward slowing the field and helping inexperienced/occasional punters who aren't accustomed to R typre tyres. And mayyyyybe, thats a way to decrease accidents.

Edit: And yes, I've competed many times on street tyres in the wet, but only circuit sprints. And in that enviroment, give me R spec tyres any day.

Surely a lot of this discussion depends on exactly what brand/size tyre you're using, and of course every brand's differing tread block pattern/depth/width/pumping ability. Only have to look at an O2G beside a V70A to see which will fare better in wet conditions

Edited December 17, 2007 by Marlin