Gym And Supplement Discussion

[Husky33]

I'm talking about bench press, and my plateau is that, on my 5th and 6th sets I used to be able to do a healthy set of 10 on 95kg and 100kg respectively for nearly a year. Lately I've not only plateaued, but had to drop back to 8 and 7 reps respectively, with both sets on 95kg.

I agree with you 100%, it's an important theory to keep in mind, and could be technically responsible for what I am experiencing...just in a different way, as I'll go on to describe. I say this, because I do actually practise this theory with various isolation exercises, which have certainly helped in furthering my success with compound movements. However, one thing I have changed in the past 3 months is my triceps isolation exercise. Where I used to do overhead extensions with a dumbell (an exercise that IMO works the triceps like no other), I have had to swap this for tricep pushdown due to a bout of tennis elbow (from, playing tennis) that would pain me during overhead extensions. It's about the only thing that has changed in my routine, other than the retraction of protein shakes from my diet. I do feel the failure in my triceps, so it is more than plausible. I do supplement bench press with incline dumbell press and decline flys, however I may have to look at some other exercises to get the most out of the tricep muscle group.

Yeah see it all comes down to why you train and what your goal is, I know it's a cliche saying but it is SO important. If you just wanted a big bench, it would take almost all of your tricep isolation work out. There is no point doing 20kg db extensions if you want a 120kg bench. Your tri's may be big and used to doing quite heavy isolation work, but put a big load through them and they are not used to functioning that way. For a big bench, working your triceps through close grip benching and board presses is heaps better. Your trices are being worked hugely in those exercises, but the important this is they are under a massive weight load, as comared to pulldowns etc etc.

But if your goal is to be big, ripped, have a good bench etc, then yeah, do your isolation work if you like.

Now, Im not one eyed. Although i used to do powerlifting and weightlifting, I now have to be very fit, run long and short distancde, have alot of muscular endurance(high reps), do heaps of bodyweight stuff etc.

So I change up my training as much as possible, but that's how it has to be for MY goal. So it takes a long time now for me to get my bench up, and squat etc, because I'm training for so many different things, now and again i even go backwards in something ha ha

Most important thing work out what you want, otherwise you'll be zig zagging forward instead of going in a straight line. You might get there, but perhaps you could have got there a long time ago

[Birds]

Yeah see it all comes down to why you train and what your goal is, I know it's a cliche saying but it is SO important. If you just wanted a big bench, it would take almost all of your tricep isolation work out. There is no point doing 20kg db extensions if you want a 120kg bench. Your tri's may be big and used to doing quite heavy isolation work, but put a big load through them and they are not used to functioning that way. For a big bench, working your triceps through close grip benching and board presses is heaps better. Your trices are being worked hugely in those exercises, but the important this is they are under a massive weight load, as comared to pulldowns etc etc.

But if your goal is to be big, ripped, have a good bench etc, then yeah, do your isolation work if you like.

Now, Im not one eyed. Although i used to do powerlifting and weightlifting, I now have to be very fit, run long and short distancde, have alot of muscular endurance(high reps), do heaps of bodyweight stuff etc.

So I change up my training as much as possible, but that's how it has to be for MY goal. So it takes a long time now for me to get my bench up, and squat etc, because I'm training for so many different things, now and again i even go backwards in something ha ha

Most important thing work out what you want, otherwise you'll be zig zagging forward instead of going in a straight line. You might get there, but perhaps you could have got there a long time ago

Nothing wrong with isolating to aid your compound exercises...isolation will still help them, for you're still building upon muscle groups that assist during the compound movements. It's particularly useful for when you have an underdeveloped muscle group that gets neglected during a compound exercise, yet could play a better part in it if it saw some individual development. Overheads aren't the same movement as bench press, close grip bench may be better for increasing your bench, but overheads will still help you...the potential evidence of that is in my bench press drop as per stopping that exercise.

My goal is to look good...strength is a fortunate by-product for me

Drops in weight only concern me because of the obvious correlation between the weight you can push and your muscle mass.

[Husky33]

Drops in weight only concern me because of the obvious correlation between the weight you can push and your muscle mass.

Well then change your goal to be as strong as you can and the muscle will come

Im not against isolation exercises at all, yes they can definately help and like you said if a muscle group is lagging it can beneficial to target it.

However it comes back to goals. If you want to lift as much as you can, piss the overheads away and do closegrip benching. Overheads may still help, but a tiny percentage when compared to the other.

If your after solely muscle size, then yeah go nuts on your isolation exercises

[Birds]

A different kind of muscle will come with pure strength as the goal though...the powerlifter body...which looks like ass to someone like me who is primarily at the gym for appearance

That said, I do think I'm fairly strong for someone who is chasing looks and started off as an absolute runt. My priorities are also to maintain a low body weight for running and cross training fitness in general.

[Husky33]

A different kind of muscle will come with pure strength as the goal though...the powerlifter body...which looks like ass to someone like me who is primarily at the gym for appearance

lol, there's only 1 type of muscle. Alot of powerlifters look like ass because they don't need to care how they look, so therefore instead of getting the right amount of calories like bodybuilders etc, they just overload on all their food, and in turn obviously stack a bit of fat on. If they leaned down they could compete in bodybuilding easily.

Arnold, ronnie coleman, franco columbo, johnie jackson and vast majority of other top bodybuilders were all powerlifters before they went into bodybuilding.

To me this isn't saying, hey, you have to do powerlifting. All it says is that if you want to be big and strong, you have to lift heavy.

Like you i need to run long distance, short distance, have the ability to cross train in a variety of different methods, so when i get the chance to lift some weights, i make sure i go heavy, because that will benefit my body the most.

[NickR33]

lol, there's only 1 type of muscle

I agree with everything else you have said but this is a bit simplistic IMHO... there are many different types of muscle fibres... originally there was thought to be just fast twitch and slow twitch but new research suggests that there maybe even more

[Husky33]

I put it simplistic because that's all most people really need to know.

Yeah there are fast twitch and slow twitch, and people are born with different fibres, and some fibres can change to another but cant change back, and if you do 1 bicep curl every 2 minutes for an hour on a full moon etc etc.....people are experts at overcomplicating things.

The more scientific you make it, the greater the chance of screwing it up. If you stick to the basics you can't go wrong.

It's like diets. There are millions out there, you see a new one on today tonight every week. Yet the best diet is eat natural unprocessed foods, and it works for everyone. Yet people dont want to listen to it because they want some scientific jargon that they can go tell their friends at the cafe.

Anyway if you want the best of both worlds that will stronly relate to running and doing other types of training, while keeping you looking good and strong, get into olympic lifting.

[Tangents]

Loving this...

[NickR33]

I put it simplistic because that's all most people really need to know.

Yeah there are fast twitch and slow twitch, and people are born with different fibres, and some fibres can change to another but cant change back, and if you do 1 bicep curl every 2 minutes for an hour on a full moon etc etc.....people are experts at overcomplicating things.

The more scientific you make it, the greater the chance of screwing it up. If you stick to the basics you can't go wrong.

It's like diets. There are millions out there, you see a new one on today tonight every week. Yet the best diet is eat natural unprocessed foods, and it works for everyone. Yet people dont want to listen to it because they want some scientific jargon that they can go tell their friends at the cafe.

Anyway if you want the best of both worlds that will stronly relate to running and doing other types of training, while keeping you looking good and strong, get into olympic lifting.

totally agree... I said pretty much exactly that a few pages back;)

I've been out of the gym for nearly 2 weeks after flu/sinus infection... on my 2nd round of antibiotics now and still having trouble shaking it... so frustrating!

look after yourselves... can't grow and improve if your stuck at home injured or sick:(

[Tangents]

I've been out of the gym for nearly 2 weeks after flu/sinus infection... on my 2nd round of antibiotics now and still having trouble shaking it... so frustrating!

look after yourselves... can't grow and improve if your stuck at home injured or sick:(

Should be taking something to boost your immune system as well if its your second lot of anti biotics. The anti biotics "kill" things good and bad lowering your immune function... Olive leaf extract...

[some_cs_student]

A different kind of muscle will come with pure strength as the goal though...the powerlifter body...which looks like ass to someone like me who is primarily at the gym for appearance

That said, I do think I'm fairly strong for someone who is chasing looks and started off as an absolute runt. My priorities are also to maintain a low body weight for running and cross training fitness in general.

http://ptcfrankston.com/doc/newsletter/PTC_Newsletter_IssueNo65.html

Take a look at point (3) where the pictures are, does that powerlifter look like ass to you?

Have you ever been to a powerlifting competition? I doubt it.

[some_cs_student]

Well then change your goal to be as strong as you can and the muscle will come

Im not against isolation exercises at all, yes they can definately help and like you said if a muscle group is lagging it can beneficial to target it.

However it comes back to goals. If you want to lift as much as you can, piss the overheads away and do closegrip benching. Overheads may still help, but a tiny percentage when compared to the other.

If your after solely muscle size, then yeah go nuts on your isolation exercises

I'd argue that isolation alone doesn't grow muscle without a solid base to start with. And it would be more efficient to train the compound lifts until you have a solid base of muscle before worrying about isolation.

[Husky33]

yeah for sure. I didnt mean to only do iso, but yeah, you need that strong base to work with.

Thats why alot of bodybuilders come from a powerlifting background, that way when they get to doing isolation work it is actually with a

heavy weight, not pink dumbells

[Birds]

lol, there's only 1 type of muscle. Alot of powerlifters look like ass because they don't need to care how they look, so therefore instead of getting the right amount of calories like bodybuilders etc, they just overload on all their food, and in turn obviously stack a bit of fat on. If they leaned down they could compete in bodybuilding easily.

Arnold, ronnie coleman, franco columbo, johnie jackson and vast majority of other top bodybuilders were all powerlifters before they went into bodybuilding.

To me this isn't saying, hey, you have to do powerlifting. All it says is that if you want to be big and strong, you have to lift heavy.

Like you i need to run long distance, short distance, have the ability to cross train in a variety of different methods, so when i get the chance to lift some weights, i make sure i go heavy, because that will benefit my body the most.

What I meant by powerlifter muscle, is the body that results from focusing primarily on strength with the main compound movements and making appearance secondary, if a factor at all. Hence isolation is usually ignored unless/until they turn to bodybuilding. If I'm there to look good I'm going to be training for it from the get go, not going the powerlifter turn body builder route. Yes, that's a good way to do it if you want to be huge. Not my thing though. I have no interests in weighing 100kg at 6'3.

Now don't get me wrong, I love my compound movements...I've built what I have using them...I just think isolation deserves more credit than it gets outside of the bodybuilding scene. It's not completely aesthetic in benefit.

http://ptcfrankston.com/doc/newsletter/PTC_Newsletter_IssueNo65.html

Take a look at point (3) where the pictures are, does that powerlifter look like ass to you?

Have you ever been to a powerlifting competition? I doubt it.

He certainly does. Too much muscle for my liking. To a lot of people he's perfection, that's their game and of course each to their own. Not everyone is at the gym to become the biggest, strongest mofo in the world. For me and most people, an athletic body with a decent amount of muscle is where it's at. I don't find body builders attractive.

I'd argue that isolation alone doesn't grow muscle without a solid base to start with. And it would be more efficient to train the compound lifts until you have a solid base of muscle before worrying about isolation.

It will grow muscle. I know this for a fact because the first exercise I ever did before joining a gym, was bicep curls with a dumbell...and I did gain size from it. Let's not forget that we're still breaking down and building muscle with isolation techniques. But yes, I agree, it is more efficient to start off with a base created from compound movements. I just don't think there's any harm in doing them simultaneously with isolation...it has helped me immensely over the years.

Remember above all gentlemen...there is more than one way to **** a ****. If it's working for you...keep doing it right

[some_cs_student]

It will grow muscle. I know this for a fact because the first exercise I ever did before joining a gym, was bicep curls with a dumbell...and I did gain size from it. Let's not forget that we're still breaking down and building muscle with isolation techniques. But yes, I agree, it is more efficient to start off with a base created from compound movements. I just don't think there's any harm in doing them simultaneously with isolation...it has helped me immensely over the years.

Remember above all gentlemen...there is more than one way to **** a ****. If it's working for you...keep doing it right

I should have mentioned I was referring to efficiency. As long as its works in the end...

[some_cs_student]

yeah for sure. I didnt mean to only do iso, but yeah, you need that strong base to work with.

Thats why alot of bodybuilders come from a powerlifting background, that way when they get to doing isolation work it is actually with a

heavy weight, not pink dumbells

Actually one of the extremely strong powerlifters in the 90kg class at the worlds actually varies his diet to switch between powerlifting and bodybuilding.

He does minimal isolation...its an interesting way of doing things.

[IOWNU]

lol, there's only 1 type of muscle. Alot of powerlifters look like ass because they don't need to care how they look, so therefore instead of getting the right amount of calories like bodybuilders etc, they just overload on all their food, and in turn obviously stack a bit of fat on. If they leaned down they could compete in bodybuilding easily.

Arnold, ronnie coleman, franco columbo, johnie jackson and vast majority of other top bodybuilders were all powerlifters before they went into bodybuilding.

To me this isn't saying, hey, you have to do powerlifting. All it says is that if you want to be big and strong, you have to lift heavy.

Like you i need to run long distance, short distance, have the ability to cross train in a variety of different methods, so when i get the chance to lift some weights, i make sure i go heavy, because that will benefit my body the most.

It also has a lot to do with leverage and balance.

A bit of fat is a good thing, especially for Power/Olympic lifters.

[NickR33]

Should be taking something to boost your immune system as well if its your second lot of anti biotics. The anti biotics "kill" things good and bad lowering your immune function... Olive leaf extract...

I've had enough Vitamin C, Echinacea, Zinc, etc etc to kill a horse... went to the gym on Sat and played basketball last night... still a little flat but feeling much better... antibiotics for sinusitus aren't really that effective anyway... lots of rest is usually the best remedy

[NickR33]

olympic lifting is a bit of a double edged sword... carry some fat to help you lift but your still trying to make a certain weight division etc so too much fat is pointless... the heavier classes seem to get away with it but the smaller guys/girls are pretty lean

[R31Nismoid]

I've had enough Vitamin C, Echinacea, Zinc, etc etc to kill a horse... went to the gym on Sat and played basketball last night... still a little flat but feeling much better... antibiotics for sinusitus aren't really that effective anyway... lots of rest is usually the best remedy

From what I've read over the years Vitamin C doesnt make much difference until you actually get sick.

Given the body just passes and excess. When you are sick then it makes a difference.

I've barely been sick the past 12 months since i started eating heaps better and i don't take any additional Vit C

Best thing for sinus stuff, the nasal steroids (and no, they aren't anabolic). I get massive headaches/blocks from it but i don't feel "down" as such, just can't get rid of a headache for 5 days at a time. Within 3 days of using the 1 metered dose per day, totally gone.

You can also use it to counteract hayfever/allergies if you get it really bad like i do. The 2 doctors and 1 pharmasist i saw about 'extended use' over 2-3 months said it was perfectly fine due to the small dosage.

I used it for 2 months last spring with awesome success for the first time in years, not one flare up the entire season.