Gym And Supplement Discussion

[markos]

There is no short cut to any place worthwhile

[No Crust Racing]

So your guys don't use any supps at all? Purely raw lifting in every sense of the word?

[markos]

They all drink protein drinks at the gym, while their meal is heating in the microwave. My top lifters bring meals to the gym and stick it in our fridge.

Remember Max, Jack and Martin are sponsored, get them free, Zoran, who squatted 260 benched 160 and deadlifted 285kg doesnt take protein ever, zero supps

Anyone that is at the pointy end of their sport and does EVERYTHING correctly can add supps

Answer honestly, is that you (referring to everyone)

I bet most on here were taking supps before they were squatting and deadlifting

I dont stock protein at PTC, but I can get it for anyone that asks, I tell everyone the same thing, eat steak and eggs. Including Max.

Interestingly, Max doesnt count any liquid protein or calories as part of his intake, only what he eats

[Trozzle]

Max uses protein powder. I have no idea why you've raised that (entirely valid) point Markos.

[No Crust Racing]

They all drink protein drinks at the gym, while their meal is heating in the microwave. My top lifters bring meals to the gym and stick it in our fridge.

Remember Max, Jack and Martin are sponsored, get them free, Zoran, who squatted 260 benched 160 and deadlifted 285kg doesnt take protein ever, zero supps

Anyone that is at the pointy end of their sport and does EVERYTHING correctly can add supps

Answer honestly, is that you (referring to everyone)

I bet most on here were taking supps before they were squatting and deadlifting

I dont stock protein at PTC, but I can get it for anyone that asks, I tell everyone the same thing, eat steak and eggs. Including Max.

Interestingly, Max doesnt count any liquid protein or calories as part of his intake, only what he eats

Great numbers for no supps, hell great numbers with supps, no supps just makes it more impressive.

I think my point is being missed.

I (and many others here) am not a power lifter, do not have aspirations of being a power lifter, do not have desires to lift what's considered heavy weight. Purely because I know I can get my goals, basic strength and looks improvements, without going that heavy.

If $100 worth of supps every 6 months allows me to do it easier/faster/with less risk of injury then I'll go for that. Is it a necessity? Nope. Does it help me recover better between sessions and for an absolute minimal time investment? Yes. So I'm onboard.

I want to say though, I do not have any issue what so ever with how anyone else gets their dietary requirements, I'm only saying that I have no issue with a basic supplementation for myself.

Edited July 2, 2013 by ActionDan

[Birds]

Have seen people walking around with food in a few of Markos' vids haha

[markos]

Dan, please take this the right way, as its meant to help you.

STOP f**king mentioning powerlifting. We get it, youre not very strong, you dont want to be a powerlifter, either do 80% of my clients, you have this notion I only train powerlifters.

Anyone that squats less than 140kg or deadlifts less than 160kg should NOT be buying supplements. You have much, much bigger issues to deal with.

Now, if you want to say do any of your lifters take protein, then you better be doing everything else they do as well.

This is the main reason lifters in commercial gyms make very, very little progress in size and strength.

They look at a pro bodybuilder or elite powerlifter and try and emulate them.

Hers a clue, emulate what they were doing when they were at your level, not now.

Dan, squat 270kg and drink all the protein powder you want, nobody is going to say shit, but squatting 80kg, please.

What am I going to say to Max, dont drink it? He's pretty much got it sussed now. He just broke the 90kg junior class total WR.

Was he using protein powder when he was squatting 80kg, hell no. In fact, he started around 2010 (170kg squat), after his first ever meet, just before going to Worlds.

Food is the key to progress, not supplements.

Far too many major in the minor shit.

This post is about progress, not powerlifting

[TTT]

Why do you bother Markos..

People eventually find the right information if they want or continue on with their ways.

Don't worry about it mate.

You're always going to get "I don't want to be a powerlifter" "I'm happy with my ways" etc in this type of place.

You've got your own forum and a PL thread here... this thread is always going to do your head in.

[No Crust Racing]

Dan, please take this the right way, as its meant to help you.

STOP f**king mentioning powerlifting. We get it, youre not very strong, you dont want to be a powerlifter, either do 80% of my clients, you have this notion I only train powerlifters.

Anyone that squats less than 140kg or deadlifts less than 160kg should NOT be buying supplements. You have much, much bigger issues to deal with.

Now, if you want to say do any of your lifters take protein, then you better be doing everything else they do as well.

This is the main reason lifters in commercial gyms make very, very little progress in size and strength.

They look at a pro bodybuilder or elite powerlifter and try and emulate them.

Hers a clue, emulate what they were doing when they were at your level, not now.

Dan, squat 270kg and drink all the protein powder you want, nobody is going to say shit, but squatting 80kg, please.

What am I going to say to Max, dont drink it? He's pretty much got it sussed now. He just broke the 90kg junior class total WR.

Was he using protein powder when he was squatting 80kg, hell no. In fact, he started around 2010 (170kg squat), after his first ever meet, just before going to Worlds.

Food is the key to progress, not supplements.

Far too many major in the minor shit.

This post is about progress, not powerlifting

I'll have you know it's 90kg now thank you very much Cut me some slack, in the time I've had I'm making progress despite the leg.

I get what you're saying, and don't disagree, and you know I always value your input.

TTT: Kind of like the responses you give about your crap shoulders and average bench? You're giving the exact same, I'm happy in my ways. (Which is totally fine) just don't preach like you're above it.

Now have fun ladies, I'm off for another x-ray. I'm assuming they will tell me my squats have been too powerful and I'm forcing the screws out of the bone

[bozodos]

protein powders are just another form of food, I wouldn't really class them as a 'supplement'. As long as you don't buy into the marketing hype that is.

a lot less calories and cheaper than eating a ton of meat, I don't think it's like any of us are having 6 or so shakes a day and not eating meat or eggs at all.

I actually thought you were a powerlifting trainer exclusively Markos - I don't know why you and Tolga get so bent out of shape at different opinions on matters of fitness and health, because it's an area with a huge variance in thought, and it seems that one man's doctrine is the next man's broscience to a degree.

[markos]

I have well over 100 clients and 25 compete in PL, what about the others?

Protein powder is absolutely a supplement, in no way is it food, it can be used as a food replacement, but its not food,it hasnt got a chance in hell as being as good as steak.

The truth is most are too lazy to prepare 6-8 meals a day, so its convenient, simple as that, and like I said earlier, there is no shortcut to any place worthwhile.

Birds won a DL comp at his gym deadlifting 1.5 x bw for some reps, I bet most people at that gym take supplements. So Bird is the strongest there, and I have 4 girls here who could beat him at that lift, what does that say about the rest of the lifters at that gym? That is not a slight on Birds, he knows how strong our girls are, but it is a slight on mainstream gym members, and their "knowledge" on most things weight related, like the comment that protein powder is food.

Now Bozdos, I'm not sure what you do for a job, lets say your a cabinet maker, if some clown was telling you sticky tape was as good as nails, its still a fastener, would you respond?

Now you know how I feel

[-FIGJAM-]

Markos I think the big issue is the perception that a power lifter is fat and most people here want to look like Zyzz and go to festivals with their shirts off and impress the ladies. This is why you keep hitting the wall.

Does that mean you are wrong and they are right? f**ked if i know, I read shit that says if you want a good chest do 4 sets of exercise on chest in a workout and eat lean food, drink x,y,z supplements. End of the day do I have a mad chest? No

Best bit of advice I got from this forum was actually from that squat dodger TTT when he recommended me watch the docco Bigger Stronger Faster. Not going to get into it on the forum, but watch it, it is one of the reasons as to why i dont purchase supplements any more.

Also Markos, I hate you because the women in your gym bench more then I do, so now im hitting gym in the morning doing 5x5 again.

Annnnd you think goal targets for squats should be 140kg + (never see anyone squatting that much for reps and full depth where I go) and 160kg + for deadlift, what about bench?

[-FIGJAM-]

also forgot to mention, if PTC Sydney was closer to home, I'd go there instead of the shit gym i go to at the moment.

[jangles]

Whats wrong with steak, chicken,fish and eggs ?

I find it amusing that you "healthy" guys try not to buy any packaged carbs or fats, preferring to buy fresh, but dont think twice about buying manufactured pre packed protein

If the Russians are doing it, we probably should too - steak and potatoes

I was having this exact discussion about 'clean' eaters today. at this time

Edited July 2, 2013 by jangles

[Birds]

The simple situation here is that Markos is trying to tell people what to do if they want to be their best, but most people here (myself included, and most outside of here) aren't prepared to put in what is required to do that, which is why we have these little arguments. Markos is passionate about people being their best, most are passionate about doing okay.

Whether it's training 6-7 times a week, forking out for 6-8 meals a day, joining a gym with an environment that breeds top level performance or even listening to the advice of professionals, most people don't want this dedication and that is what separates the average from the best. That is why the former have a "shortcut" mentality, turning to supplements instead of food etc.

I understand Markos' frustration; I cringe everytime someone weaker than me recommends I try their pre workout, or even seeing talk of it (not to mention my loathe of calorie counting). But I also recognise, that it is the mentality of the individual and not just a lack of knowledge. The mentality can't be changed, not easily anyway. Sometimes it takes that person to want to venture out and find the good answers. Sometimes that person is just stubborn in their ways (*cough* me). Like Tolga said, if people want it, they will search and find or ask...all you can do is give them advice and hope they listen or it's a lost cause and not worth your time anyway. Passion does drive one to keep coming back for more frustration, though.

And I leave you all with a quote from one of my favourite motivational speeches:

When you wanna succeed as bad as you wanna breathe, then you will be successful. And I'm here to tell you number one, that most of you say you wanna be successful...but you don't want it bad...you just kind of want it. You dont want it badder than you want to party. You dont want it as much as you want to be cool. Most of you dont want success as much as you want to sleep.

[markos]

I hate the notion the PL are fat. How many of you even know a competing powerlifter

This is the best powerlifter in the world today, maybe ever

Edited July 2, 2013 by markos

[markos]

Closer to home, Martin, powerlifter, squats 250kg, benches 160kg, deadlifts 290kg. I hope you guys that think powerlifters are fat are leaner OR stronger than him

[jangles]

protein powders are just another form of food, I wouldn't really class them as a 'supplement'. As long as you don't buy into the marketing hype that is.

a lot less calories and cheaper than eating a ton of meat, I don't think it's like any of us are having 6 or so shakes a day and not eating meat or eggs at all.

I actually thought you were a powerlifting trainer exclusively Markos - I don't know why you and Tolga get so bent out of shape at different opinions on matters of fitness and health, because it's an area with a huge variance in thought, and it seems that one man's doctrine is the next man's broscience to a degree.

They are a supplement for food, as fish oils/omega 3 is a supplement for what is found in fish, multivitamins, what is found in whole foods and fruits...etc. etc.... its a supplement for whole foods.

[TTT]

TTT: Kind of like the responses you give about your crap shoulders and average bench? You're giving the exact same, I'm happy in my ways. (Which is totally fine) just don't preach like you're above it.

No idea what you're talking about.

I've got pains in elbows, wrists and shoulders and don't bench that often because of it.

How am I preaching about being above what now?

[bozodos]

Markos - not a single member of our local powerlifting club that I have seen has that kind of aesthetic physique - quite the opposite, so that's why that kind of got stuck in my head in the first place.

Look at strongmen for another example - many of them do look quite fat despite being insanely strong, Derek Poundstone being a notable exception.

I realise that unlike us, you are a professional, and dislike being told you're wrong, but surely it is best to keep an open mind!

I can't really do much with my routine right now due to the limitations of going to a commercial gym and because my gymbros are not interested in doing any structured programs. I'm still making progress, and they really encourage me to go harder, so I'm happy with that for now.

I have protein shakes to keep up my low carb cut, because I actually like the taste and as a replacement for eating cans of tuna / chicken breast all the time, because it bores me. If I could recall some of the studies about ingesting 1g/lb or so of protein a day, I'd link them. Also cheaper or the same price as eating regular protein sources for snacks (eggs being the one possible exception). If there is any empirical evidence to suggest they are detrimental to health or wellbeing, I'm all ears. $50 for a month's worth of 'snacks', is not a huge expense IMO, especially given that I no longer smoke or drink every week.

While I'm still a beginner, what harm can trying out various things do to judge their effects for myself?