Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Birds I know about the relation of effort vs results, but particular sets and reps are done to achieve particular results.

on another note, have a read of this, interesting article http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/09/opinion/sunday/dont-take-your-vitamins.html

Not talking about effort, was talking about the important stuff that beginners should focus on more than number of sets and reps.

Interesting article, and I have to say, I used to take a few vitamins...a multi...two vitamin C tablets...vitamin D...I developed this placebo like belief that they were helping me to stay healthy / not catch colds and feel better in general. I weened off them due to lazyness and I feel no different; was probably already getting enough of everything anyway. Lots of unnecessary profit being made by these vitamin companies. In the end most people take them as bandaids simply because they aren't getting them the way they should be; can't be good. Starting to feel the same way about protein shakes.

Dont mean to sound like an ass, but since when has human skeletal muscle been capable of hyperplasia?

Everything I have ever seen has shown evidence of hypertrophy only, so you get more sarcomeres (contractile units) within each muscle fibre but you dont get more muscle fibres.

I was going to touch on the same thing, though I thought all you're REALLY promoting with resistance training is hypertrophy, and hyperplasia just happens much much slower (since GH is the only thing that will cause it no?)

Similarly conventional AAS (more so anabolics) like NPP/DECA, Dianabol, and Trenbolone will only cause a more rapid growth of existing muscle cells, whereas HGH is the only way to cause growth of NEW cells.

I use terms like cause very loosely here.

Not talking about effort, was talking about the important stuff that beginners should focus on more than number of sets and reps.

Interesting article, and I have to say, I used to take a few vitamins...a multi...two vitamin C tablets...vitamin D...I developed this placebo like belief that they were helping me to stay healthy / not catch colds and feel better in general. I weened off them due to lazyness and I feel no different; was probably already getting enough of everything anyway. Lots of unnecessary profit being made by these vitamin companies. In the end most people take them as bandaids simply because they aren't getting them the way they should be; can't be good. Starting to feel the same way about protein shakes.

If you ate enough meat, milk and eggs, you wouldn't need protein shakes either tbh. Most of us have them for the convenience factor (apart from idiots who actually think that they have some kind of magical effect).

I've noticed among my skinny friends, mass gainers are all the rage, especially the Dymatize one that claims to have 1900 calories in a shake :S

Mass gainers work; they stack on pounds and fill you full of carbs and fat. I gained 10kg on one lol

Whether it's a good idea for someone or not is debatable...but at least it's upping the calorie intake for skinny fkers who claim they can't gain weight and don't meet caloric requirements for better performance in the gym. Food is infinitely better of course.

Not talking about effort, was talking about the important stuff that beginners should focus on more than number of sets and reps.

Interesting article, and I have to say, I used to take a few vitamins...a multi...two vitamin C tablets...vitamin D...I developed this placebo like belief that they were helping me to stay healthy / not catch colds and feel better in general. I weened off them due to lazyness and I feel no different; was probably already getting enough of everything anyway. Lots of unnecessary profit being made by these vitamin companies. In the end most people take them as bandaids simply because they aren't getting them the way they should be; can't be good. Starting to feel the same way about protein shakes.

Why the hell you been telling me to have a protein shake every day then.

Dont mean to sound like an ass, but since when has human skeletal muscle been capable of hyperplasia?

Everything I have ever seen has shown evidence of hypertrophy only, so you get more sarcomeres (contractile units) within each muscle fibre but you dont get more muscle fibres.

I said I was generalising. I deleted the word 'cells' for you, people don't know what sarcomeres are generally. Microtrauma repair isn't hyperplasia. Debate about hyperplasia exsists. Doesn't matter for us in terms of what works at the micro levels.

The concept that the body adapts to both the nervous system training and the microtrauma caused by heavy loads is well established. Microtrauma is the key to strength training in the area of hypertrophy. Treating it as controlled damage helps condition the thinking towards correct training methodology. Most gym goers actually believe they are 'getting stronger/bigger' in the gym. They aren't, they are getting controlled damage and stress it's just the ticket to the dance. Sleeping, resting & eating is the 'growth part'

bottom line is how many people are trying to understand what the optimal recovery periods are for the muscles they have and the movements they do. Coaches take note of progression and adapt for athletes the programs around limits and time frames. Individuals can pay attention to this also and try to figure out the optimum. Arbitary rest periods are just that. For many the same period of time resting is inadequate. It depends on factors including genetic/ diet and the actual effects of the training session.

If you aren't training hard then it's of much smaller concern.

Edited by rev210

Why the hell you been telling me to have a protein shake every day then.

Probs cause as a vegan/veggo (whichever you are) getting enough lean protein is harder, unless you want to eat a bucket of broccoli?


Her comment was in relation to this Rev.

Not talking about effort, was talking about the important stuff that beginners should focus on more than number of sets and reps.

Interesting article, and I have to say, I used to take a few vitamins...a multi...two vitamin C tablets...vitamin D...I developed this placebo like belief that they were helping me to stay healthy / not catch colds and feel better in general. I weened off them due to lazyness and I feel no different; was probably already getting enough of everything anyway. Lots of unnecessary profit being made by these vitamin companies. In the end most people take them as bandaids simply because they aren't getting them the way they should be; can't be good. Starting to feel the same way about protein shakes.

I was going to touch on the same thing, though I thought all you're REALLY promoting with resistance training is hypertrophy, and hyperplasia just happens much much slower (since GH is the only thing that will cause it no?)

Similarly conventional AAS (more so anabolics) like NPP/DECA, Dianabol, and Trenbolone will only cause a more rapid growth of existing muscle cells, whereas HGH is the only way to cause growth of NEW cells.

I use terms like cause very loosely here.

Theres a few animal model studies that show hyperplasia occurs in skeletal muscle, but in humans I think its hard to actually prove hyperplasia has occured because its hard to count fibre numbers in people that are still alive.

I think it probably does occur in humans to a certain extent but hypertrophy is definitely a bigger contributor to muscle size increases.

Havent really done much on AAS but as far as I know they work by enhancing gene expression to make the body produce more contractile protein in skeletal muscle in response to stress ie weight training. Whether or not that is hyperplasia as well as hypertrophy I dont know. Itd depend on what they do to satellite cells in muscles as id say they are the cells that are going to be able to proliferate into new muscle cells.

Why the hell you been telling me to have a protein shake every day then.

Cause you can't eat meat; most people can. You need to keep your protein levels up even if you're not exercising. Will help with maintaining muscle built prior to injury period.

I said I was generalising. I deleted the word 'cells' for you, people don't know what sarcomeres are generally. Microtrauma repair isn't hyperplasia. Debate about hyperplasia exsists. Doesn't matter for us in terms of what works at the micro levels.

The concept that the body adapts to both the nervous system training and the microtrauma caused by heavy loads is well established. Microtrauma is the key to strength training in the area of hypertrophy. Treating it as controlled damage helps condition the thinking towards correct training methodology. Most gym goers actually believe they are 'getting stronger/bigger' in the gym. They aren't, they are getting controlled damage and stress it's just the ticket to the dance. Sleeping, resting & eating is the 'growth part'

I dont think it really matters whether its hypertrophy or hyperplasia to most people in the long run. What matters is weight training combined with proper nutrition and rest can increase strength and muscle mass.

Theres a few animal model studies that show hyperplasia occurs in skeletal muscle, but in humans I think its hard to actually prove hyperplasia has occured because its hard to count fibre numbers in people that are still alive.

I think it probably does occur in humans to a certain extent but hypertrophy is definitely a bigger contributor to muscle size increases.

Havent really done much on AAS but as far as I know they work by enhancing gene expression to make the body produce more contractile protein in skeletal muscle in response to stress ie weight training. Whether or not that is hyperplasia as well as hypertrophy I dont know. Itd depend on what they do to satellite cells in muscles as id say they are the cells that are going to be able to proliferate into new muscle cells.

The key I was trying to focus on was the treatment of strength training as a form of controlled 'damage' .

As you say , the study of the growth or not of additional cells in living humans is a tad difficult. This 'grey area' means there is plenty of bulldust science in the world of bodybuilding. It's about selling a different kind of cosmetics.

There is plenty of sports science covering the recovery and increase of strength in study form. As it relates to the decrease and then increase of strength over time following a session. Thats probably enough to go on for most, given human experiment to look deeper into muscles when this is the case, is not going to happen real soon.

I dont think it really matters whether its hypertrophy or hyperplasia to most people in the long run. What matters is weight training combined with proper nutrition and rest can increase strength and muscle mass.

I matters if you are not mindfull of the fact that you are damaging the body to stimulate it. That basis gives great benifit to how you plan and adapt training shedules. It's ignored. People alter diet and reps and weight to suit. Not rest. To me thats a gap.

i saw this article, and thought of Markos raging lol http://www.outsideonline.com/fitness/injury-prevention/10-Risky-Workout-Moves.html tl;dr don't do below parallel squats or military press (among others)

rev I think a lot of regular people are starting to realise that growth doesn't happen in the gym these days, but I personally find it hard to not be doing something for my 5 days of the week.

Noob question, and I might be misunderstanding if there's sarcasm in there Boz, but I thought going below parallel was a good thing? I actually find it harder to stop at parallel and it feels like you knees would get flogged out quick doing so.

Noob question, and I might be misunderstanding if there's sarcasm in there Boz, but I thought going below parallel was a good thing? I actually find it harder to stop at parallel and it feels like you knees would get flogged out quick doing so.

I think he was just TL;DR'ing the topic of the article as it's stupid haha...definitely sarcasm.

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Latest Posts

    • Update 3: Hi all It's been a while. Quite a lot of things happened in the meantime, among other things the car is (almost) back together and ready to be started again. Things that I fixed or changed: Full turbo removal, fitting back the OEM turbo oil hardlines. Had to do quite a bit of research and parts shopping to get every last piece that I need and make it work with the GT2860 turbos, but it does work and is not hard to do. Proves that the previous owner(s) just did not want to. While I was there I set the preload for the wastegates to 0,9bar to hopefully make it easier for the tuner to hit the 370hp I need for the legal inspections that will follow later on. Boost can always go up if necessary. Fitted a AN10 line from the catch can to the intake hose to make the catchcan and hopefully the cam covers a slight vacuum to have less restrictive oil returns from the head and not have mud build up as harshly in the lines and catch can. Removed the entire front interior just shy of the dashboard itself to clean up some of the absolutely horrendous wiring, (hopefully) fix the bumpy tacho and put in LED bulbs while I was there. Also put in bulbs where there was none before, like the airbag one. I also used that chance to remove the LED rpm gauge on the steering column, which was also wired in absolute horror show fashion. Moved the 4in1 Prosport gauge from sitting in front of the OEM oil pressure gauge to the center console vents, I used a 3D printed vent piece to hold that gauge there. The HKB steering wheel boss was likely on incorrectly as I sometimes noticed the indicator reset being uneven for left vs. right. In the meantime also installed an airbag delete resistor, as one should. Installed Cube Speed premium short shifter. Feels pretty nice, hope it'll work great too when I actually get to drive. Also put on a fancy Dragon Ball shift knob, cause why not. My buddy was kind enough to weld the rust hole in the back, it was basically rusted through in the lowermost corner of the passenger side trunk area where the wheel arch, trunk panel and rear quarter all meet. Obviously there is still a lot of crustiness in various areas but as long as it's not rusted out I'll just treat and isolate the corrosion and pretend it's not there. Also had to put down a new ground wire for the rear subframe as the original one was BARELY there. Probably a bit controversial depending on who you ask about this... but I ended up just covering the crack in the side of the engine block, the one above the oil feed, with JB Weld. I used a generous amount and roughed up the whole area with a Dremel before, so I hope this will hold the coolant where it should be for the foreseeable future. Did a cam cover gasket job as the half moons were a bit leaky, and there too one could see the people who worked on this car before me were absolute tools. The same half moons were probably used like 3 times without even cleaning the old RTV off. Dremeled out the inside of the flange where the turbine housing mates onto the exhaust manifolds so the diameter matches, as the OEM exhaust manifolds are even narrower than the turbine housings as we all know. Even if this doesn't do much, I had them out anyways, so can't harm. Ideally one would port-match both the turbo and the manifold to the gasket size but I really didn't feel up to disassembling the turbine housings. Wrapped turbo outlet dumps in heat wrap band. Will do the frontpipe again as well as now the oil leak which promted me to tear apart half the engine in the first place is hopefully fixed. Fitted an ATI super damper to get rid of the worn old harmonic balancer. Surely one of the easiest and most worth to do mods. But torquing that ARP bolt to spec was a bitch without being able to lock the flywheel. Did some minor adjustments in the ECU tables to change some things I didn't like, like the launch control that was ALWAYS active. Treated rusty spots and surface corrosion on places I could get to and on many spots under the car, not pretty or ideal but good enough for now. Removed the N1 rear spats and the carbon surrounding for the tailpipe to put them back on with new adhesive as the old one was lifting in many spots, not pretty. Took out the passenger rear lamp housing... what do you know. Amateur work screwed me again here as they were glued in hard and removing it took a lot of force, so I broke one of the housing bolts off. And when removing the adhesive from the chassis the paint came right off too. Thankfully all the damaged area won't be visible later, but whoever did the very limited bodywork on this car needs to have their limbs chopped off piece by piece.   Quite a list if I do say so myself, but a lot of time was spent just discovering new shit that is wrong with the car and finding a solution or parts to fix it. My last problem that I now have the headache of dealing with is that the exhaust studs on the turbo outlets are M10x1.25 threaded, but the previous owner already put on regular M10 nuts so the threads are... weird. I only found this out the hard way. So now I will just try if I can in any way fit the front pipe regardless, if not I'll have to redo the studs with the turbos installed. Lesson learned for the future: Redo ALL studs you put your hands on, especially if they are old and the previous owners were inept maniacs. Thanks for reading if you did, will update when the engine runs again. Hope nothing breaks or leaks and I can do a test drive.
    • No those pads are DBA too  but they have colors too. I look at the and imo the green "street" are the best.
    • I’m not sure what happened I told them about sonic tunes free OTS tune and the next the I know .. I was booted..   To funny 
    • Yea - I mean I've seen my fuel pump which is decades old and uh, while I'm not saying this with real knowledge... but I sure get the ick at using anything in the fuel system that produced the state of that pump. Many years ago I went through multiple pumps (and strainers) before I dropped the tank to clean it out with extreme violence. I'm talking the car would do maybe 50km before coming to a halt, which resulted in me cleaning out the filter with some brake cleaner and going on my way. None of my stuff ever looked like what came out of your fuel tank. I don't think I'd be happy with it unless every single component was replaced (or at least checked/cleaned/confirmed to be clean here).
×
×
  • Create New...