Air To Water Intercoolers

[R33_Rob]

Hi guys,

I am chasing a front mount for my S2 R33 GTST.

Was wondering if anyone here knows anything about air to water intercoolers?

Is there much of a price difference between air to air vs air to water?

also if anyone knows any retailers it would be great to post them up

from the very limited previous threads it seems as though no one really knows much.

thanks

Edited November 10, 2008 by R33_Rob

[G Kanobi]

No one else has replied so I'll chuck in my 2 cents worth.

I don't know much about them, last I heard about them was a couple of years ago, and there were substantially more pricey than air to air. But I hear they do a pretty good job.

Not entirely sure on how they work exactly. Would be great if some one who knows could give a quick description.

Hi guys,

I am chasing a front mount for my S2 R33 GTST.

Was wondering if anyone here knows anything about air to water intercoolers?

Is there much of a price difference between air to air vs air to water?

also if anyone knows any retailers it would be great to post them up

from the very limited previous threads it seems as though no one really knows much.

thanks

[cuppas]

i dont know pricing, but i can tell you more or less how they work

intercoolers work by atmospheric temperature air leaching heat off the compressed air

its to do with physics etc

keeping it simple though, the air rushing through the intercooler cools down the charge.

water to air intercoolers have a section of piping surrounded by a water jacket that does the same basic job as a standard intercooler

except that water is a much more effecting substance at removing heat from the air

one problem you can get though, is heat sink, in which case everything messes itself.

[Johnny]

For a street car an air to air is fine; air to water still require a front mounted radiator for the water otherwise the water will become too hot to remove heat energy from the turbo's boost which can be quite hot.

The only cars that would require an air to water intercooler would be say an MR2 as there is not many efficient places to place a large air to air cooler.

A nice light intercooler with plenty of surface area is great at cooling the hot turbo air.

[WRRR]

I have looked at water/air for both my 4wd and thought about it for the GTR.

In a nut shell usually more expensivethan air/air due to the need for the cooler core, radiator, pump, tank and wiring up.

Advantages are if you have limited frontal area the radiator component is not as big as an air/air intercooler, good for low speed/high torque situations where you don't nomally have good air flow for air/air intercooling, less/(no?) heat soak, can usually keep air piping short (response).

Go have alook on the PWR site, they do a barrel style or there are a number of them on eBay etc.

Cheers

[R33_Rob]

thanks guys for the quick replies

i have a 400R bar so space is no problem. Thought maybe it could give me an edge over some other cars that are using air to air coolers.

but ill go with the Blitz front mount kit

cheers

[Angus Smart]

Not a great deal of point on a gtr/gts-t unless your using it for a speical purpose (mainly quick drag racing) or perhaps quick hill climbs? or in a engine bay as said above that doesnt have much airflow (rear mounted engines etc)

the idea is using minimal pipe work to counter lag, you can mount a barrel cooler close to the throttle/throttles/turbo outlet. and well up in the engine bay to minimise pipe work.

keeping something like dry ice in the reservoir like some drag cars would is a good idea, but wouldnt last too long in a street car..

[bubba]

OK, this is what I have discovered about water-air intercooling..

Water can absorb the heat fast but this means it also takes a while to dissipate it. Water-Air cooling is only really good for short bursts (street driving where WOT is minimal at best, drag racing, sprints), any sort of sustained high rpm/boost/WOT (circuit racing) and air-air is the better way to go.

[Dale FZ1]

It depends if the system is spec'd properly and set up well enough to allow the cooling medium to shed its heat. Pump the coolant around too fast and it won't transfer its absorbed heat via the coolant radiator. Likewise if the coolant radiator is too small or is inefficient there will be problems.

The only identifiable disadvantages I can see are weight, cost, complexity when compared to air:air. You'd need to look at those factors plus engine bay packaging before going away from a conventional front or side mount air:air for a Skyline.

[bubba]

I still see a problem with the fact that water cannot get read of the absorbed heat as fast as it absorbs it.. pump it slow enough that it can transfer heat to its' radiator and wouldn't that expose it to the heat source for longer?

From what I've read and my understanding of the physics involved, I can't see it being a solution for long periods on boost.. on a street car that doesn't really matter but air-air is cheaper, lighter and less complex (read: less things to fk up).

[Dale FZ1]

air-air is cheaper, lighter and less complex (read: less things to fk up).

Agreed

[Eagle390]

Agreed

I also agree.

That said though, if you want you could get a large air-water front mount radiator (maybe something the size of a standard intercooler but not as thick) such as "http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=216&products_id=1006&osCsid=3e93b8b21c1db67be19f186168387dcd". This will still give you the air-air intercooler look, but also cool down that water much better. (you could also add a second thermo fan if you do a lot of stop start). This would be a decent setup for the street.

From my research, Air-Air intercoolers cool better AT SPEED than air-water, but gains are made for Street, drift and drag (drift because sessions are short and there is less front-on air flow).

Now for the cool part (no pun intended). you could also have an ice box setup AFTER the radiator but BEFORE the water-air cooler. (This would allow a bit of the heat to be taken out before the ice box, meaning the ice box can do its job better and last longer). Drag racers tend to use dry ice (because it's super cold) but you can also use normal ice if you wish. This means that if you really want some kick ass performance from your 'cooler, just add ice! Adding Ice will give you better performance, even at speed because (in a good, well thought out setup) you can cool the air to BELOW ambient temperature (or much closer to it). That is something Air Air intercoolers can only dream of.

In short, daily driving, stop start situations (without ice) will have close to air air performance (for more weight and complexity). At highway speed you will make a loss (which is why air water is bad for circuit use).

Add ice however and there will be gains everywhere (but remember the weight!).

On a side note, mounting the battery in the rear will help you try to maintain a 50/50 weight balance, AND the ice box can also be mounted in the boot; heck you could even mount the ice box in the cabbin and have a section to keep your drinks cool! Also, try to wrap all of your water pipe in some sort of thermo wrap (maybe not between the cooler and the radiator... might have to research that) so the water remains nice and chilly.

And a final note: if you live in a hot climate like Qld, and you do things like drift, you might have overheating issues with an Air-Air intercooler. This is because the Air-Air type (good ones, not cheap chinese ones) dramatically restrict the amount of airflow to radiators etc. that are behind the intercooler. In a drift application (lots of heat, reduced front on air flow) on a hot day, this could be bad... Of course, it's not a problem on the street though ^_^

If you decide to go crazy, you could have an air air, then an air water hooked up to an ice box (with no radiator for the air water)... but let's not get carried away here...

Just some random thoughts

[gotRICE?]

i dont know pricing, but i can tell you more or less how they work

intercoolers work by atmospheric temperature air leaching heat off the compressed air

its to do with physics etc

keeping it simple though, the air rushing through the intercooler cools down the charge.

water to air intercoolers have a section of piping surrounded by a water jacket that does the same basic job as a standard intercooler

except that water is a much more effecting substance at removing heat from the air

one problem you can get though, is heat sink, in which case everything messes itself.

I was under the impression that the alloy fins of the Intercooler conduct the heat from the compressed air, and the air passing through the core at speed takes the heat away, or cools them off again. Rather than the air just cooling the charge.

And the cooler the core is, the more heat energy the core can obsorb. Work more like a heatsink...

I guess im just being more scientific

Edited August 1, 2009 by gotRICE?