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Gtr Suspension - Racepace Tein Or Dms

NickR33

By NickR33,
in Victoria

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Rowdyr32 Mentor

Rowdyr32

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Just maybe try puting 7kgmm front springs in the front and 5kgmm springs in the rears. A few quickish all round car run this in 32 and 33 gtr's. Backing the dampening off might not help though if you go from a shock setup for 12kgmm springs and you put in 5's but you can't lose really giving it a go and it might work good enough? Ask around a bit more. Springs are rediculously cheap and an easy alternative to spending a fortune that you probably might not need to. I read that you were interested in building a kit car so changing a set of springs is easily done in a morning and would be good to help you learn about how to setup a car as you develope it. Also depends if you want a mainly road/track car or a track/road car setup. Sounds like you want the first option so massive $ suspension setup wouldn't be worth it to save a poofteenth on the track. All gtr's are is cheque book racing machines. Its all been done before so its good to see your doing your research. Saves waisting your cash.

I thing I cannot undestand is how workshops can adjust the suspension in customers cars when they don't come and observe their driving styles or have anything on record (datalogging) apart from the customers comments on how it handles. Sometimes it might be the driver driving the car wrong not the suspension thats incorrectly setup. So the car is adjusted to the driver not the drive to the suspension so the car wil never reach its full potential. There are enough cars and people out there who have done it before you can gain info off to get a good suspension setup but to finetune it to its full potential is a different thing. I was speaking to the team owner at Glenfords about their V8 supercarcar a the F1 a few years ago and it was great to listen to how they were struggling with exit corner speed and trying to making the car slide and how they were trying to rectify it. Changing just one thing effects the the whole setup of the car through the rest of the corner. Its a fine balancing act and something I have never ever heard anybody at club track days ever mention or go into depth about and understand it to any great degree. I definantly don't get it but normally you can usualy research and ask enough questions to find how you can attempt to improve it.

Just something to think about. Sometimes you don't need to spend big $ to get the improvement your after. The more expensive the car the less likely your going to push it as hard. The less you push it and the slower the time and more expensive it is to fix if something happens to break.

NickR33 Grand Master

NickR33

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thanks Rowdy, you make some good points... I love this line "All gtr's are is cheque book racing machines" lol...

I don't mind running around with ultra high spring rates as long as the thing handles... its really just the rear that doesn't do what its supposed to... the RE's are probably 6 or 7 years old and in need of a rebuild anyway so thought I would look at the whole setup... it also runs standard swaybars so I'll definitely be looking to go softer in the springs and make up for it with some thicker bars... bars are cheap and easy to adjust, even for someone as mechanically challenged as myself:)

totally agree with your philosophy on setup... the limiting factor is always going to be my driving so I don't want to throw too much $$$ at the problem but at the same time I think having a good suspension setup is very rewarding... it doesn't need to be perfect it just needs to do all the basics well and be predictable on the track and street

Rowdyr32 Mentor

Rowdyr32

Posted
Posted

If you speak to Gadg or Ant...? They both only really have shocks and springs in their cars. Gadg has run a 1.48 and Ant has done a 1.49 both at PI in mid 250rwkw r33 gtr's with factory brembo's. Ants car only has springs if I'm correct.

As you said Nick swaybars can make massive diferences and are easily adjusted to make small changes. Softer springs will make the car a lot more snappy when you start to loose it and back off and could possibly bite you but once you learn the limits its good to drive but won't change direction as quick. You should also speak to Scotsman. He has a more sprint/track setup car and doesn't have to many big $ parts in it suspension wise if I'm correct. He runs swaybars and 7and 5 kg/mm springs as well. From what I have heard Benno doesn't like to setup with swaybars and prefers higher spring rates. I just read that BB GTR's car has 650lbin springs in his car. I think 7kgmm springs are 400lbin so it shows the difference in how different people setup cars.

I'm going to send Duncan an email soon as he seams to have a very well setup track car and find out what specs he is running and I'll shoot you a pm with some info Giant shared with me a few years ago. A small email with some great knowledge from a proven car about suspension setup in their car. I was really glad they took the time to shared it with me.

NickR33 Grand Master

NickR33

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thanks for the PM Gareth... interesting the range of opinions you get from different people

I'll definitely be going softer in the springs, I just don't want to loose the grip it has currently on smooth roads...

went up to Lorne late on Friday night and my god we were actually airborne at one stage... we hit a big dip just as I was shifting from 3rd to 4th and it threw us both out of our seats making me mis-shift into 2nd instead of 4th, giving massive compression lockup... luckily I had packed fresh undies for the weekend

I actually think on those roads my old GTSt with the Bilstein/Kings and 260rwkw would be quicker... the GTR turns in better, has more grip, has more power (360rwkw), better brakes (the old car had no abs either) but is so scary over rough road your constantly scanning the road ahead for bumps... takes a lot of the enjoyment out of it all

Snowman Grand Master

Snowman

Posted
Posted

This has gone a little OT since the original question - but for what it is worth Ben Wooster in the R32 GTST that came 3rd Outright at Targa Tas Classic was running some "borrowed" DMS suspension and puts his result down completely to those shocks. He was raving about how good the car was to drive on the 1st couple of days and hence why he had the confidence to push so hard.

Mind you he did also drive through 2 fences on 2 seperate occassions over the course of the event so at some stage something went a bit wrong. LOL

Ant97GTR Grand Master

Ant97GTR

Posted
Posted
If you speak to Gadg or Ant...? They both only really have shocks and springs in their cars. Gadg has run a 1.48 and Ant has done a 1.49 both at PI in mid 250rwkw r33 gtr's with factory brembo's. Ants car only has springs if I'm correct.

Lol to my knowledge Gadg is still trying to catch my 1.49 :P In the suspn dept my car only has a set of dodgy HKS shocks and springs and it suffers for it both during turn in and mid corner :yucky:

NickR33 Grand Master

NickR33

Posted
  • Author
Posted
This has gone a little OT since the original question - but for what it is worth Ben Wooster in the R32 GTST that came 3rd Outright at Targa Tas Classic was running some "borrowed" DMS suspension and puts his result down completely to those shocks. He was raving about how good the car was to drive on the 1st couple of days and hence why he had the confidence to push so hard.

Mind you he did also drive through 2 fences on 2 seperate occassions over the course of the event so at some stage something went a bit wrong. LOL

yeah that's an awesome effort... he did well to come off twice and still end up 3rd! must have been really pushing, you tarmac rally guys are all crazy... I think if you tried to do a targa with my car setup the way it is you would last about 5 minutes before you were wrapped around a tree...

Roy Grand Master

Roy

Posted
Posted
... my car only has a set of dodgy HKS shocks and springs and it suffers for it both during turn in and mid corner :P

If they are Hypermax II then they are far from dodgey. A friend ran them in his car and it was supreme at Wakefield and EC when he used to give me steers of it. If they are shot/leaking then that is something different. The HKS are alloy monotube shocks with prety racey spring rates so no bad thing :P

Ant97GTR Grand Master

Ant97GTR

Posted
Posted

Roy....I believe they are hypermax II just going by what I can see however they have been on the car for a while as they were fitted by the previous owner. The reason I am calling them dodgy is that the previous owner wasn't track orientated and therefore suspect that the spring rate isn't properly matched to suit ozzie tracks. At a place like PI this doesn't matter much but my car in the bumpier parts of places like Sandown doesn't like keeping the tyres on the road :(

Besides I suspect that overall tyre geometry and driver ability are more to blame for the turn in and mid corner issues than anything else :(

Snowman Grand Master

Snowman

Posted
Posted

Bad suspension can also be good at PI.

Remember I ran the 1.49.3 down there on my old Tein HA's in a near stock car otherwise (just exhaust, ecu and cam gears) and yet they were rubbish everywhere else.

Infact I reckon blocks of wood would go pretty good at PI! So don't use times there as an example. That place is too smooth for a propper suspension test.

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