N/a Vs Turbo

[A&J]

I'll ask the QUESTION for all those like me on there P's; what are the differences between the RB N/A's and the RB Turbos?

also this i think is covered in another topic but what are the costs and rewards of turbo-ing later.

Unless some one is hiding something from me the main engines we have are the 2.0L (N/A Only), the 2.5L Turbo & N/A and the 2.6L Twin Turbo.

We should focus on the 2.5L (or cc).

Other than the Turbo What are the differences?

Things like fuel line size (if you can put what the N/A's are and the turbos). Also it's Important we put what car it was in IE a R31, R32, R33, R34.

I'm trying to establish what is the better option, buying a N/A and then in a year or so upgrading it to a turbo.

Also some advice, I'm looking at a R34 25GT-X 4-Door (if i can find one) for its AWD, if not just a R34 GT-25

PS Some one might like to redo this once we finish as a sticky.

[Benzino33]

i think this topic's already been covered,man

do a search

[mad082]

well as with any turbo motor, it has lower compression than the NA version. this means that down the track to turbo the NA motor isn't just a case of bolting a turbo and all the piping on. you then become limited as to what boost you can run without decompressing the head (due to the extra heat from the higher compression). the advantage of turboing a NA motor though is the fact that it will come on boost earlier due to the higher compression, and have more low down power.

also, i know that with the earlier model skylines, but not sure about the r34's, the brakes are bigger/better/more powerful on the turbo versions, and i think some of the NA versions aren't limited slip diff.

fuel line size is probably the same, but fuel pump and injectors may be different (honestly don't know for sure)

the way the prices of NA's are at the moment compared to turbo versions, it would probably be a fair bit cheaper to sell your NA when you get off your p's and just buy a turbo version as everything such as drivetrain, etc is designed for the extra power.

[N-DAWG]

Covered in an out many times through various threads.

Refer the how to turbo N/A thread, and my sticky with power results which I also encourage people to post up the costs to be able to compare. As a forum we've already accumulated quite a lot of resource for the N/A+turbo conversions.

The biggest difference as far as engine goes is the compression and type of pistons. R34's also have a variable length manifold. Exhaust size, injector sizes, fuel pump are also different. Brakes and suspension also differ on N/A unless you get a GT-V which has Turbo Model brakes and suspension as far as R34 goes. R33 obviously 4 stud vs 5 stud.

If you want to sticky a be all and end all resource for N/A vs Turbo for all these things, I would suggest a table with a collumn for each specific model (eg. R34 25GT, R34 25GT Sedan, R34 GTX, R34 GTV, R33 GTS, R33 GTS4, and there are quite a number of variances between models), then down the left you would have all your criteria. Most of this information as far as brakes, wheel sizes etc.. can be found from Nissan resources, things like injector capacity and type would be useful for future resource.

Most conversions if not transplanting the engine, are a case-by-case scenario anyways. I'm yet to see two RB25DE+t conversions that are exactly the same. Even on the R34 with the NEO engine, DORI34 had a blanking bolt for oil feed whereas DE NEO's typically don't.

[N-DAWG]

well as with any turbo motor, it has lower compression than the NA version. this means that down the track to turbo the NA motor isn't just a case of bolting a turbo and all the piping on. you then become limited as to what boost you can run without decompressing the head (due to the extra heat from the higher compression). the advantage of turboing a NA motor though is the fact that it will come on boost earlier due to the higher compression, and have more low down power.

also, i know that with the earlier model skylines, but not sure about the r34's, the brakes are bigger/better/more powerful on the turbo versions, and i think some of the NA versions aren't limited slip diff.

fuel line size is probably the same, but fuel pump and injectors may be different (honestly don't know for sure)

the way the prices of NA's are at the moment compared to turbo versions, it would probably be a fair bit cheaper to sell your NA when you get off your p's and just buy a turbo version as everything such as drivetrain, etc is designed for the extra power.

R34 25GT Sedan, 25GT Coupe and 25GTT are all different for brakes.

For example, my R34 25GT Sedan had 280mm Front Discs with 2 pot calipers and 265mm Rear Discs with 1 pot calipers. Brake lines also different. Good news though was that I was able to modify them to fit GTSt calipers, custom lines and the larger discs without changing the hubs.

I believe R34 GTV has LSD?

Injectors are high capacity on turbo models. Also R34 has top feed R33 has side feed.

To the OP, My advice also is to get a turbo model to begin with, unless the high compression low boost setup appeals to you. If you're chasing large amounts of reliable power then a GTT is probably the best way to begin.

N/A+t conversions are great for those who want to run the high compression low boost, or for those who have an N/A skyline that have done wheels, tyres, suspension, brakes, and a number of other things that would warrant more loss than gain when selling.

If you want a 4 Door R34 then it's definitely worth shopping around for a GTV. The fact that you get turbo model brakes and suspension makes life a hell of a lot easier when it comes to getting replacement parts (take it from me, it's partially the reason for my brake upgrade), having bigger turbo model brakes = win! It's virtually a GTT but with an N/A motor and would make a great starting base if you plan to N/A+t or engine transplant later as the turbocharged engine is pretty much all what holds it back from being a GTT. I wish I'd tried to get one to begin with.

[A&J]

Quick Q' What about a GT-T and remove the turbo, or would that violate the NO TURBO Rule, I don't know?

[Kranker]

here are a few links to get you started, it has been covered thoroughly before, but a sticky would be a nice addition to the N/A section

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Si...amp;hl=na+turbo

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Rb...amp;hl=na+turbo

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Di...amp;hl=na+turbo

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Tu...amp;hl=na+turbo

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Di...amp;hl=na+turbo

these and many more came up from a search of just the words "na turbo" in the titles of topics, there are heaps more.

I also plan to get an R34 4 door GT-Four next year (all money from the last 2 years has gone into a European Holiday so car plans are on hold), but I wont buy the car until i can afford the car, a Stagea AWD RB25det Neo motor, some aftermarket management, suspension and brake upgrades all at the same time. However if i didnt want an AWD sedan, i would have just bought a GT-T and not gone down the path of turbocharging an NA R34.

edit: to anwer ur 2nd question...no, removing your turbo doesnt mean you can drive your car on your P's. Your car is still in the system as an R34 GT-T witch in the eyes of the police/gov is a turbo car, regardless of if the turbo is removed or not.

Edited June 26, 2009 by Kranker

[Jack-]

R34 25GT Sedan, 25GT Coupe and 25GTT are all different for brakes.

For example, my R34 25GT Sedan had 280mm Front Discs with 2 pot calipers and 265mm Rear Discs with 1 pot calipers. Brake lines also different. Good news though was that I was able to modify them to fit GTSt calipers, custom lines and the larger discs without changing the hubs.

I believe R34 GTV has LSD?

Injectors are high capacity on turbo models. Also R34 has top feed R33 has side feed.

To the OP, My advice also is to get a turbo model to begin with, unless the high compression low boost setup appeals to you. If you're chasing large amounts of reliable power then a GTT is probably the best way to begin.

N/A+t conversions are great for those who want to run the high compression low boost, or for those who have an N/A skyline that have done wheels, tyres, suspension, brakes, and a number of other things that would warrant more loss than gain when selling.

If you want a 4 Door R34 then it's definitely worth shopping around for a GTV. The fact that you get turbo model brakes and suspension makes life a hell of a lot easier when it comes to getting replacement parts (take it from me, it's partially the reason for my brake upgrade), having bigger turbo model brakes = win! It's virtually a GTT but with an N/A motor and would make a great starting base if you plan to N/A+t or engine transplant later as the turbocharged engine is pretty much all what holds it back from being a GTT. I wish I'd tried to get one to begin with.

The N/A R34 25GT doesn't have LSD?

[Reggi34dr]

A&J

I'm gonna sound like the judges on SYTYCD here critiqueing (?) dancers who think they're great when they really aren't.

I've noticed that your a P plater, thats fine but what do you currently own or what have you owned/driven previously?

Also, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that this is the first time you've had anything to do with Skylines, isn't it? It's either that or you haven't searched this site/researched jap imports or skylines in general.

Lastly, do you have a manual or auto licence.

I ask these questions because the main outcome your looking to get from your original post has been asked a fair few times before as myself and heaps of others have contributed to those threads. Honestly a simple search e.g. Kranker's reply above, would've found you all the info your looking for.

Your future car of an AWD 25GT-X 4door doesn't exist. A 25GT-X 4door does but not in AWD. If you looking for an AWD 4door R34 then you should be looking for a 25GT-4.

You'll see in below my avatar that I have a GT-V sedan and i'm not the only one on this site who has a GT-V, sedan or coupe. I'm sure i speak for most of the GT-V owners out there(not all, most) in that having the 'V' makes life so much easier when it comes to upgrading brakes, suspension etc due to it being built a turbo-spec car but without the turbo engine.

If you do a search for GT-V I've posted links before to sites that have the tabled info on the R34 models. Sort of what Nathan mentions above. Since an R34 is what your looking to get.

The reason I ask what transmission your licence states is because if you have a manual licence and a looking for a manual skyline in a specific model, you'll find that some of the R34 range only came out in a auto only. If you only have a slush-box licence, then your laughing.

I/We all realise your new but when other SAu members say to 'search' it's not to be mean or blunt. It's because the same question has come up many times over the years and the answers haven't changed.

[mad082]

Quick Q' What about a GT-T and remove the turbo, or would that violate the NO TURBO Rule, I don't know?

yes. the car is registered as a turbo so they aren't going to car if the turbo is removed.

also, as i said in my post, and others have said, the turbo motor has lower compression, so that means that it will be slower with the turbo removed than a NA. in fact it would probably be about as fast as a hyundai excel..... if the hyundai is being driven by a 90 year old lady

[N-DAWG]

I've read a thread or two where people have converted the engine to non-turbo with the DE manifold n all, though A/F's needed bit of cleaning up. Apparently runs quite well considering compression and all, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

After all that you'd have to get engineer certs etc.. to be able to register the car as a non-turbo. Main reason some end up going down that path is because they've found turbo skylines more affordable to purchase than N/A Skylines.

Anyways your options really are the following:

a) Buy an N/A Skyline now, sell it and buy a turbo Skyline when you're on your open licence.

b) Buy an N/A Skyline now, modify suspension, brakes, handling, Wheels n Tyres, then when you're open licence do a bolt-on turbo conversion

c) Buy an N/A Skyline now, modify suspension, brakes, handling, Wheels n Tyres, then when you're open licence do a RB25DET NEO Swap

d) Buy another N/A Car that has more power than a Skyline (at 2.5litres there's not a huge amount of power on offer with a Skyline in comparison to a lot of other N/A cars out there that would prove cheaper to keep on the road) and when on your open licence, use that saved money to buy a GTT, or maybe even a GTR by then depending on how much you can save and how affordable they are in a few years time.

[mad082]

I've read a thread or two where people have converted the engine to non-turbo with the DE manifold n all, though A/F's needed bit of cleaning up. Apparently runs quite well considering compression and all, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.

After all that you'd have to get engineer certs etc.. to be able to register the car as a non-turbo. Main reason some end up going down that path is because they've found turbo skylines more affordable to purchase than N/A Skylines.

Anyways your options really are the following:

a) Buy an N/A Skyline now, sell it and buy a turbo Skyline when you're on your open licence.

b) Buy an N/A Skyline now, modify suspension, brakes, handling, Wheels n Tyres, then when you're open licence do a bolt-on turbo conversion

c) Buy an N/A Skyline now, modify suspension, brakes, handling, Wheels n Tyres, then when you're open licence do a RB25DET NEO Swap

d) Buy another N/A Car that has more power than a Skyline (at 2.5litres there's not a huge amount of power on offer with a Skyline in comparison to a lot of other N/A cars out there that would prove cheaper to keep on the road) and when on your open licence, use that saved money to buy a GTT, or maybe even a GTR by then depending on how much you can save and how affordable they are in a few years time.

yeah, that would be the best and cheapest way. get something like a manual 3.5L v6 magna. quicker than a NA skyline. only downside is fwd, but if you can't handle it, you sure as hell won't be able to handle a turbo skyline. they don't really torque steer at all compared to some other FWD cars.

or a n15 SSS pulsar. probably as quick as a NA skyline once a set of extractors are put on. i have owned both a v6 magna (2 actually, and 1 ran a 14.8 at willowbank with just a cat back exhaust) and a n15 SSS and i loved both of them. still have the pulsar (it's the missus now) and they are a great little car. could just do with a bit more torque (like from putting a turbo on, but the missus won't let me). and being fwd will mean that there is less chance of you being stupid and trying to drift and either getting booked or crashing.... or both.