Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

advancing the timing may have some benefit. if you advance the timing you will pick up power, however you don't want it to be pinging as that will lead to all sorts of trouble. i would start by checking the timing and making sure it is at least where it should be (isn't retarded below stock)

retarding the timing will give you no gain in performance at all. it will decrease performance.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4862023
Share on other sites

I would hardly call that almost standard. About the only thing on the outside of the engine you haven't changed is the exhaust manifold... (ok and the airflow meter)

Although it *can* be done with a stopwatch and a good ear for detonation, you probably aren't good enough to do that or you wouldn't have asked, I would take it to a dyno shop and get it done (along with whatever other tuning/expermenting you might need doing). Standard price appears to be $100-120 an hour, and for that you should be able to adjust fuel pressure, ignition timing, and cam timing (if you have adjustable gears) to get it spot on.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4862029
Share on other sites

i did have the timing advanced a little bit and it seemd that i couldnt boost my turbo over 10psi with the car shuddering at about 4500rpm even when hot!

do u guys have any idea if the timing would effect this or do i have another problem?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4862736
Share on other sites

I would hardly call that almost standard. About the only thing on the outside of the engine you haven't changed is the exhaust manifold... (ok and the airflow meter)

Although it *can* be done with a stopwatch and a good ear for detonation, you probably aren't good enough to do that or you wouldn't have asked, I would take it to a dyno shop and get it done (along with whatever other tuning/expermenting you might need doing). Standard price appears to be $100-120 an hour, and for that you should be able to adjust fuel pressure, ignition timing, and cam timing (if you have adjustable gears) to get it spot on.

i would. bov isn't a performance mod. plugs are maintainence, pod isn't really much of mod either. so he has an exhaust, fmic and slightly bigger turbo. not exactly crazy mods.

and it isn't hard to adjust the timing safely. or at least put a timing light on it to see if it is at least set to the stock timing.

i did have the timing advanced a little bit and it seemd that i couldnt boost my turbo over 10psi with the car shuddering at about 4500rpm even when hot!

do u guys have any idea if the timing would effect this or do i have another problem?

the issue you are having could be that the car is leaning out or the coilpacks or ignitor aren't performing as well as they should, but i wouldn't put it down to the advanced timing. could also be that you are running the stock ecu and with the bigger turbo at that sort of boost level it isn't liking it too much. generally you can have the timing advanced to a point where it will ping it's arse off and it will still make decent power. does do the engine any good, but it does make you lose power the moment it starts pinging. but the problem only appears as you up the boost which makes me think it's either an issue with the ignition system not coping or a fuel issue. you could stick it on a dyno and get them to do a run and check the AFR's and see how they are to rule out the fuel side of things. to check the ignition side of things if you have a mate with coil packs in good condition then try putting them on and see what it does.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4862795
Share on other sites

I would hardly call that almost standard. About the only thing on the outside of the engine you haven't changed is the exhaust manifold... (ok and the airflow meter)

Although it *can* be done with a stopwatch and a good ear for detonation, you probably aren't good enough to do that or you wouldn't have asked, I would take it to a dyno shop and get it done (along with whatever other tuning/expermenting you might need doing). Standard price appears to be $100-120 an hour, and for that you should be able to adjust fuel pressure, ignition timing, and cam timing (if you have adjustable gears) to get it spot on.

What is the stopwatch for?

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4863895
Share on other sites

adjusting fuel pressure on a stock car, with a stock ECU with a map that already runs ridiculously rich? ehh..

If you're tight and want some cheap power, go get a SAFC, borrow a mate's wideband and hire a dyno, pull a few runs on 3rd/4th gear and adjust/bend/tweak the A/F..

SAFC only bends the Air Flow Meter signal, but works quite well on a car that has minimal mods..

I had a RB20DET with a remap, and a SAFC to neaten up the A/F, works good for small mods.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4864222
Share on other sites

stopwatch is to measure the performance gain. The ass dyno can easily be confused by lower bottom end torque feeling like a top end gain. A stopwatch makes sure that you are actually improving things.

And adjusting the fuel pressure does not neccessarily mean raising it. Lowering it is classed as an adjustment as well.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4864366
Share on other sites

i would. bov isn't a performance mod. plugs are maintainence, pod isn't really much of mod either. so he has an exhaust, fmic and slightly bigger turbo. not exactly crazy mods.

and it isn't hard to adjust the timing safely. or at least put a timing light on it to see if it is at least set to the stock timing.

the issue you are having could be that the car is leaning out or the coilpacks or ignitor aren't performing as well as they should, but i wouldn't put it down to the advanced timing. could also be that you are running the stock ecu and with the bigger turbo at that sort of boost level it isn't liking it too much. generally you can have the timing advanced to a point where it will ping it's arse off and it will still make decent power. does do the engine any good, but it does make you lose power the moment it starts pinging. but the problem only appears as you up the boost which makes me think it's either an issue with the ignition system not coping or a fuel issue. you could stick it on a dyno and get them to do a run and check the AFR's and see how they are to rule out the fuel side of things. to check the ignition side of things if you have a mate with coil packs in good condition then try putting them on and see what it does.

Sorry to jump in. i just read the above... So coilpacks that may not necessarily be causing any major stutters or missing, could still contribute significantly to detonation????

my 33 hates any increase in timing (pings its head of with minimal boost on stock turbo). Pulled timing back and ran 15 psi down it and no ping.... Doesnt miss or run lean though.... its got me f**ked...

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4864904
Share on other sites

the issue with advancing the timing is, the way you are doing it, it affects the whole tune

your engine can deal with more timing when its coming on boost and off boost

and this is typically where good gains can be had, but once its on full load, it cant take too much more

so if you backdial the cas to advance the timing it will shift the entire map, which means detonation city on max load

so you need either

1) a remap of your current tune

2) a copgyback device to advance the timing in certain areas

3) a standalone to tune as you like

with the right experience and skill and time you can make the car drive quiet differently

i was able to dial in +12 deg ignition timing in some areas on my map with my powerfc and some on-road tuning

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4864946
Share on other sites

the issue with advancing the timing is, the way you are doing it, it affects the whole tune

your engine can deal with more timing when its coming on boost and off boost

and this is typically where good gains can be had, but once its on full load, it cant take too much more

so if you backdial the cas to advance the timing it will shift the entire map, which means detonation city on max load

so you need either

1) a remap of your current tune

2) a copgyback device to advance the timing in certain areas

3) a standalone to tune as you like

with the right experience and skill and time you can make the car drive quiet differently

i was able to dial in +12 deg ignition timing in some areas on my map with my powerfc and some on-road tuning

sorry mate i wasnt clear. Ive left this in the hands of tuners with whom i closely watched the process. Cars now got z32 ecu NISTUNE etc etc. The end result wasnt exactly what id expected.

200 rwkw on 14+ psi no ping on a 30 deg (with fmic, exhaust, filter etc) day with timing retarded. Apparently barely even standard. Id had that figure running 12psi, and generally much more responsive too, but under full load yeah it was pinging. Ive seen others do much better. its disappointing.. There must be an actual reason why without fobbing it off saying 'its a dead motor'... Coils and spark maybe. Made 160kw with no mods at all which was pretty healthy....

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4865037
Share on other sites

Easy to make a stopwatch reliable (maybe not accurate, but repeatable, which is all you are after for comparison), just practise.

The easiest way to make the car repeatable is to not time the launch. Ie go from idle to redline in second gear, but only time from 2000-6500 (assuming a 7000rpm redline). That way you don't have the effect of launching, and you know you are at full throttle the entire time (because there is no guessing as to the exact time in the run the throtte was floored and then lifted again).

You are also highly unikely to feel a gain in the 0.1 second region, which a stopwatch will reliably show.

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4866133
Share on other sites

200 rwkw on 14+ psi no ping on a 30 deg (with fmic, exhaust, filter etc) day with timing retarded. Apparently barely even standard. Id had that figure running 12psi, and generally much more responsive too, but under full load yeah it was pinging. Ive seen others do much better. its disappointing.. There must be an actual reason why without fobbing it off saying 'its a dead motor'... Coils and spark maybe. Made 160kw with no mods at all which was pretty healthy....

200rwkw is healthy for a standard turbo 25, usually anymore than that is just from happy dynos

Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/290614-timing/#findComment-4867353
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Hi, is the HKS  Tower Bar still available ? negotiable ? 🤔
    • From there, it is really just test and assemble. Plug the adapter cables from the unit into the back of the screen, then the other side to the car harness. Don't forget all the other plugs too! Run the cables behind the unit and screw it back into place (4 screws) and you should now have 3 cables to run from the top screen to the android unit. I ran them along the DS of the other AV units in the gap between their backets and the console, and used some corrugated tubing on the sharp edges of the bracket so the wires were safe. Plug the centre console and lower screen in temporarily and turn the car to ACC, the AV should fire up as normal. Hold the back button for 3 sec and Android should appear on the top screen. You need to set the input to Aux for audio (more on that later). I put the unit under the AC duct in the centre console, with the wifi antenna on top of the AC duct near the shifter, the bluetooth antenna on the AC duct under the centre console The GPS unit on top of the DS to AC duct; they all seem to work OK there are are out of the way. Neat cable routing is a pain. For the drive recorder I mounted it near the rear view mirror and run the cable in the headlining, across the a pillar and then down the inside of the a pillar seal to the DS lower dash. From there it goes across and to one USB input for the unit. The second USB input is attached to the ECUtec OBD dongle and the 3rd goes to the USB bulkhead connected I added in the centre console. This is how the centre console looks "tidied" up Note I didn't install the provided speaker, didn't use the 2.5mm IPod in line or the piggyback loom for the Ipod or change any DIP switches; they seem to only be required if you need to use the Ipod input rather than the AUX input. That's it, install done, I'll follow up with a separate post on how the unit works, but in summary it retains all factory functions and inputs (so I still use my phone to the car for calls), reverse still works like factory etc.
    • Place the new daughterboard in the case and mount it using the 3 small black rivets provided, and reconnect the 3 factory ribbon cables to the new board Then, use the 3 piggyback cables from the daughterboard into the factory board on top (there are stand offs in the case to keep them apart. and remember to reconnect the antenna and rear cover fan wires. 1 screw to hold the motherboard in place. Before closing the case, make a hole in the sticker covering a hole in the case and run the cable for the android unit into the plug there. The video forgot this step, so did I, so will you probably. Then redo the 4 screws on back, 2 each top and bottom, 3 each side and put the 2 brackets back on.....all ready to go and not that tricky really.      
    • Onto the android unit. You need to remove the top screen because there is a daughterboard to put inside the case. Each side vent pops out from clips; start at the bottom and carefully remove upwards (use a trim remover tool to avoid breaking anything). Then the lower screen and controls come out, 4 screws, a couple of clips (including 3 flimsy ones at the top) and 3 plugs on the rear. Then the upper screen, 4 screws and a bunch of plugs and she is out. From there, remove the mounting brackets (2 screws each), 4 screws on the rear, 2 screws top and bottom and 3 screws holding in the small plates on each side. When you remove the back cover (tight fit), watch out for the power cable for the fan, I removed it so I could put the back aside. The mainboard is held in by 1 screw in the middle, 1 aerial at the top and 3 ribbon cables. If you've ever done any laptop stuff the ribbon cables are OK to work with, just pop up the retainer and they slide out. If you are not familiar just grab a 12 year old from an iphone factory, they will know how it works The case should now look like this:
    • Switching the console was tricky. First there were 6 screws to remove, and also the little adapter loom and its screws had to come out. Also don't forget to remove the 2 screws holding the central locking receiver. Then there are 4 clips on either side....these were very tight in this case and needed careful persuading with a long flat screw driver....some force required but not enough to break them...this was probably the fiddliest part of the whole job. In my case I needed both the wiring loom and the central locking receiver module to swap across to the new one. That was it for the console, so "assembly is the reverse of disassembly"
×
×
  • Create New...