Quick Performance Questions...

[noely1]

Hey guys have a 4dr tiptronic 34 and just wondered what could give me a little better response and pick up aswell as some acceleration and how much would i be looking at for whatever part you recommend??

also would a CAI with a pod help much or not? i kno there is a big debate bout this... but i really jus want a simple answer im confused on this topic would it help or not? and how much?? possible links??

cheers guys

[N-DAWG]

Tyres. Start with some good tread which will improve handling, braking and getting power to the ground and keeping it on the ground.

Next stop would be suspension. Whiteline Sway bars, and Whiteline or King Springs. That will improve handling and cornering, ultimately allowing you to drive the car faster around curves and corners.

If you want to use a pod filter, then make sure it's enclosed and run a CAI, otherwise expect it to swallow heat and decrease performance. Your best bet would be to use a hi-flow panel filter in the factory box.

I done the above on my 4 Door N/A R34 GT for a year before turbocharging, and I would recommend you doing the same.

The next step, without going the forced induction route, would be:

Extractors: DKNE from Australian Based Seller, or the well tried and tested Coby Extractors from PartsCo in New Zealand. Best to get them Coated in Hi Temp and wrapped. Don't wrap them without doing the treatments first or expect corrosion. Extractors will help the engine rev out easier, and give you more response in the mid-range. Remember Japanese engines typically make power through revs, and helping your N/A breathe and rev out easier will help you attain peak power quicker.

Catback: 2.5" Mandrel Bend Catback system. There's little-to-no options in off-the-shelf solutions, and when you find them they're very expensive. Best to get a custom system done. You can go 3" which will give you more top-end, but this will hinder your goal of improving accellaration as power down low will be decreased.

Hi-Flow Cat Converter: The Japanese cat's are removed at compliance and the compliance cats are crap to say the least. Don't risk running without a cat (big fines, and you'll attract attention as the back of your car will be black).

After all that, then it's really on to the most expensive part which is port n polishing the head, cams, cam gears, engine management and yeah things start getting pricey from there.

Don't expect a HUGE increase in power. Getting big power out of a 2.5Litre inline 6 costs a lot.

Another thing you could do depending on the condition of your gearbox is a shift kit, also known as a valve body upgrade. Western Suburbs Automatics rebuilt my gearbox with heavy duty components and also done the valve body and shifts are very quick! 1st to 2nd is a bit rough, but you get used to it. This will help you get through the gears quickly and obviously improve acceleration.

Don't forget the car needs to stop too after adding power so some brake upgrades, even if its just discs and better pads and some good fluids will be of benefit.

[scathing]

Tyres. Start with some good tread which will improve handling, braking and getting power to the ground and keeping it on the ground.

The OP said he wants more response and more acceleration.

Good tyres aren't going to help with the former, and they're not going to help with the latter unless his current tyres can't contain the power his engine is making. Which is unlikely, since he drives a NA Skyline.

Next stop would be suspension. Whiteline Sway bars, and Whiteline or King Springs. That will improve handling and cornering, ultimately allowing you to drive the car faster around curves and corners.

Maybe my physics isn't the best, but when did "corner speed" start to mean "acceleration"?

The only way to improve handling, throttle response and acceleration all at the same time is to reduce weight. Reducing inertia brings benefits to all axes of a vehicle's travel.

[WYTSKY]

Nathan just gave him a quick rundown of mods... in a good order too....tyres are one of the best things you can do for your car... unless u seem to think the car will stick to the ground when its wet... The performance mods are there if he wants to skip handling and traction... but lets be honest... theres not that much power to be had from an N/A skyline so focus on something else....

taking out ur back seats and removing sound deadener is not going to make a big difference..... only useful for cars to get that last few hundredths of seconds faster around the track... unless you wanna make it a bare shell with a steering wheel.

[ShanO`]

The only modification i have done to my car that has made a real difference in 'response' was to rip out that crappy automatic gearbox and replace it with a manual

[GTS4WD]

Im with Shane on this, get a proper gearbox.

But in all honesty, unless your prepared to spend a fair bit of money.. there isnt much, get a snail.

I know its a cop out. but its the best way

But the basics are as nath explained, get the engine to breath better, intake exhaust, advance the timing. This can be done on a reasonable budget. But gains are minimal.

Any more from there, your going to throw a couple of grand money at cams, cam gears, ECU and tune, for considerable, but not huge gains.

Futher from there, your looking at ripping the engine out.

If you wanna go fast in a straight line, buy a rotor, they are still P Plate legal

Edited October 28, 2009 by GTS4WD

[noely1]

yeah ok so i have been thinking of a manual conversion i was wondering if any1 knew if it was really taht hard or is it relativley easy? and how much would this cost approx??

any1 know any links to some CAI and pod setups? or how much would these cost??

yeah im getting hi flow cat into a 2.5" or 2 and a quarter " piping with the six inch muffler would this be ok if i ran extractors when i got the money for a set of extractors or would i be better off going 3" back ? im not really fussed about the noise it'll make i mean any exhaust on a skyline or Jap motor sounds great in my view...

[noely1]

also Nathan you said:

Next stop would be suspension. Whiteline Sway bars, and Whiteline or King Springs. That will improve handling and cornering, ultimately allowing you to drive the car faster around curves and corners.

and that you had done this by any chance would you remember how much yours cost by any chance?? i been looking at some coilovers but not sure how much is a good price or where to start from (as in price range)

[WYTSKY]

yeah ok so i have been thinking of a manual conversion i was wondering if any1 knew if it was really taht hard or is it relativley easy? and how much would this cost approx??

any1 know any links to some CAI and pod setups? or how much would these cost??

yeah im getting hi flow cat into a 2.5" or 2 and a quarter " piping with the six inch muffler would this be ok if i ran extractors when i got the money for a set of extractors or would i be better off going 3" back ? im not really fussed about the noise it'll make i mean any exhaust on a skyline or Jap motor sounds great in my view...

lol, i'll hoar my DIY threads some more... These will be a fun weekend job for ya....

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ma...at-t208224.html

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Ne...html&hl=CAI

[N-DAWG]

also Nathan you said:

Next stop would be suspension. Whiteline Sway bars, and Whiteline or King Springs. That will improve handling and cornering, ultimately allowing you to drive the car faster around curves and corners.

and that you had done this by any chance would you remember how much yours cost by any chance?? i been looking at some coilovers but not sure how much is a good price or where to start from (as in price range)

Give the guys at Fulcrum Suspension a call. I'm not sure where in Brisbane you are, but they have a branch in Yeerongpilly and Capalaba. When I had mine done I was fairly new to Brisbane and called the Capalaba branch before realising how much further it was from where I lived... it was however a much cheaper quote and the guys in Yeerongpilly were able to match the price.

Fulcrum can supply king springs and whiteline parts, and they also sell the Aussie version of the Tein Coilovers.

I'd have to dig up my invoice to see how much it cost.

[AYW550]

yeah ok so i have been thinking of a manual conversion i was wondering if any1 knew if it was really taht hard or is it relativley easy? and how much would this cost approx??

any1 know any links to some CAI and pod setups? or how much would these cost??

yeah im getting hi flow cat into a 2.5" or 2 and a quarter " piping with the six inch muffler would this be ok if i ran extractors when i got the money for a set of extractors or would i be better off going 3" back ? im not really fussed about the noise it'll make i mean any exhaust on a skyline or Jap motor sounds great in my view...

i just did a full custom exhaust on my 4 door r34, all up it cost me roughly $1200 NZD including takes, shipping, labour

which included

-exhaust gasket

-coby exctractors

-full 2.5 mandrel bent pipe (dont go 3" will be useless amount of flow untill your doing at least 100km and very sluggish at speed in town, even with 2.5 ive had to use my gears alot differently to get the low torque out of it (mines manual, would be real shit on a auto i reckon)

- a high flow 8 inch resonator (stainless) and later had to add a 2-in-1 high flow muffler+resonator (stainless) in btw the other resonator and extractors to get the noise down, , , trust me, its disgustingly loud (outside) and drony (in the cabin) without a proper muffler, sounded cool at first tho from outside the car , and even now it can be loud if you drive it loudly and even if your not fussed with the noise the, cops will be

- a dual 3" tip euro style muffler (stainless)

but ya, its a fun mod building it up yourself , making it custom

[iseekool]

Nathan just gave him a quick rundown of mods... in a good order too....tyres are one of the best things you can do for your car... unless u seem to think the car will stick to the ground when its wet... The performance mods are there if he wants to skip handling and traction... but lets be honest... theres not that much power to be had from an N/A skyline so focus on something else....

taking out ur back seats and removing sound deadener is not going to make a big difference..... only useful for cars to get that last few hundredths of seconds faster around the track... unless you wanna make it a bare shell with a steering wheel.

If your on a budget - I wouldn't bother spending too much on getting much more power out of an N/A (unless you intend on going a de+t setup). A good exhaust and panel filter is as far as I would go for breathing mods.

Best to focus on reliability, handling and braking so that you can make best use of what power you have.

My recommendations are quite similar to what the other guys have said (no particular order):

- Good tires that are inflated to correct levels

- Good suspension.

- Don't get tires that are too fat as this will cause un-needed drag - the 17" (225/45) GT-T wheels (or lighter) are optimal for handling without being overly wide or heavy.

- Always use 98+ RON fuel

- Possible brake upgrade to GT-T spec, anything bigger will actually rob you of performance (explained further down)

- Use the best fluids/synthetic oils

- High flow panel filter.

- High flow cat.

- Upgrade the exhaust.

- Remote oil filter and oil cooler as well as transmission cooler - Non turbos rely on high revs which means things get hot....

- Every kilogram and friction counts so stay away from gimmicks such as:

- Heavy audio equipment amps/subs etc. A good quality high powered replacement for the stock unit would suffice - the stock speakers sound surprisingly good once you have a decent head unit to drive them.

- Heavy chrome wheels "chromies" more weight + increased rolling mass = more drag

- Any wheels over 17" as your tires will get fatter = more drag = less performance. (I bet alot of people would dis-agree - fact of the matter if you have good tires traction is not going to be an issue) Remember the car is still a 2.5 non turbo.

- Overly noisy/heavy canon mufflers - cop magnet, no performance gain and does not sound too good on an auto.

- Overly large brakes are heavier. more weight + increased rolling mass = more drag

[Kinkstaah]

Catback: 2.5" Mandrel Bend Catback system. There's little-to-no options in off-the-shelf solutions, and when you find them they're very expensive. Best to get a custom system done. You can go 3" which will give you more top-end, but this will hinder your goal of improving accellaration as power down low will be decreased.

Dumb question/hijack thread but why not..

Why is this so? The guys with FI are always very big on larger 3" exhausts (or bigger) - Why is this not the case with NA engines?

And while I'm here, with a NA+T - Is there a middle ground on this? What "Rule" applies, the NA rule where too big can be a decrease in performance, or the FI rule of thumb where bigger is better?

[N-DAWG]

Volumetric Efficiency. Think of it as drinking with a thicker straw compared to a thinner straw. Takes more effort to fill the larger straw, but ultimately flows more and is more efficient when it's full. The thinner straw will fill quicker but will be less efficient after this point.

Forced induction set ups make easy power through compressed air. Force more air in the same physical space by compressing it with the turbo charger. Therefore it's easy to fill the volume of the exhaust, particularly when you increase the amount of boost being used. Therefore it makes sense to use a larger diameter exhaust so as not to be restrictive and make more power.

An N/A skyline relies on the displacement and revs to make power and achieve volumetric efficiency. Too large an exhaust, and response down low will be sacrificed for more top-end gain in the higher rev range. Too small and you'll limit top end efficiency. 2.5" is a good compromise between the two, particularly for a daily driver.

I've used 3" on my N/A+t; I think Adam's used 3.5"? I believe Dan used 2.75" Back when he done his N/A+t conversion, though with 7PSI that would make for a nice responsive set up. Don't forget that in an N/A+t you're combining 10:1 compression with Boost, so there is more response and torque in the bottom end, so 3" is an ideal size for your typical N/A+t conversion. Depends what you're going for in the end.. outright top-end power, or a car that drives well on a daily basis.

[Kinkstaah]

Thats exactly the info I was looking for - So when it comes to NA+T forced induction rules apply, if anything, youd need a bigger exhaust than a standard turbo engine. Unless I'm completely wrong. Thanks for the thread hijack

[N-DAWG]

I would "think" that 3" would be an adequate size, unless you want more top end or you're pushing insane amounts of boost on a DE with Stock Internals *points at Adam* lol You're fairly limited as to how much you can push through an N/A+t, so best to pick an exhaust size that would give you a good balance, or suitable for the goal you want to achieve. Either way though, on an N/A+t you're certainly going to have a dramatic increase in air flowing through the engine.

[WYTSKY]

lol... just while ur pointing at me... im almost ready to be chuck on my new goodies i went all out... im not gonna say nemore till its done but it will be fun

also... i still never have a perfectly accurate measurement of my exhaust... some spots its 3.5inch... some its 3.25.... and where theres some dints its 3"....

I bought the car with it on... only mod it had.... it was insanely loud... and yeh... the car barely moved in the low revs with it on... with the turbo... quitened it down heaps... almost stock decibels until the boost comes on...

BTW... great example with the straws