Rb30det - Bosch Coils + R32 Igniter Wiring Issues

[Finny]

Hi all,

I recently got my car back from the work shop after it was there for over a year.... any way the car was running before I took it in and they were not doing any wiring work on the car at all.

So I took a photo just after I got the car back and then decided to fix up the horrible wiring mess.

So I mounted the igniter properly, taped up all the wiring, heat shielded the coil packs and got it looking all good. Then went to start it and nothing....

no spark from any of the coil packs.

Now the coil setup was kinda assembled before I brought it. It came as igniter to coil packs so all I had to do was wire up a new plug to replace the old RB25DET igniter plug so that I could plug it in. Previously it worked fine, I had really good spark, MUCH MUCH better than the stock coils.

So I have no idea why it all of a sudden stopped working although I did put in some new earth wires to make it look tidy.

I have no idea what the igniter is, I thought it was an R32 igniter but it has different plugs to an R32 igniter but apart from that it looks the same and has the same pinout.

Thats how I have it wired up, the red wires are the signal wires coming from the ECU.

There is no 12v wire any where there, just signal and earth. I remember the stock RB25DET igniter has got a 12v wire in to the igniter but I don't think this one does... I have no idea how an igniter can run passively but I am no auto electrician.

Any ideas guys?

Also I am running a Microtech LT12s

Edited December 7, 2009 by Finny

[Finny]

Also, for any one looking at a replacement for the stock coil packs I HIGHLY recommend this method. I am not sure why my setup has just died all of a sudden. The only thing I can think of is a dead igniter so if no one has any ideas I think I will order a Microtech X6 igniter tommorow.

Previously I was running 16psi with 0.8mm gapped plugs and any more boost than that and it would start to miss. With this coil pack setup I have ran 2.2 BAR of boost with no miss-firing at all. I even lifted the gap to 1.1mm and it still didn't have an issue. The larger the gap the more complete burn (correct me if I am wrong) so I might even go to 1.5mm gap if I can get my setup working again just to make it even more drivable off boost.

[Finny]

After looking at a bunch of wiring diagrams it looks like the combiled earth wire fire the coil packs need to be hocked to 12V. BUT that earth wire is hocked to the negative side of the coil pack and the wires from the igniter is hocked to the possitive side... I really have no idea how it was working before :S

[R31Nismoid]

Previously I was running 16psi with 0.8mm gapped plugs and any more boost than that and it would start to miss. With this coil pack setup I have ran 2.2 BAR of boost with no miss-firing at all. I even lifted the gap to 1.1mm and it still didn't have an issue. The larger the gap the more complete burn (correct me if I am wrong) so I might even go to 1.5mm gap if I can get my setup working again just to make it even more drivable off boost.

All that means is you were using a sub-part setup originally.

Fact is factory coil/igniton system, when in decent condition, will make 400rwkw no issues.

No wiring changes, mods, nothing. Just Nissan OEM coils, ignitor and wiring.

However most people have 10yr old+/flogged setups, then change them and sing from the hilltops about how much better, which of course it is...

Given you are comparing a rotten apple with a fresh one.

[Lukas 33]

After looking at a bunch of wiring diagrams it looks like the combiled earth wire fire the coil packs need to be hocked to 12V. BUT that earth wire is hocked to the negative side of the coil pack and the wires from the igniter is hocked to the possitive side... I really have no idea how it was working before :S

I am not quite sure what you mean there. I get slightly confused when reading it. Are you able to repost up the little wiring picture to show how it SHOULD be connected so people will have an idea for future reference

Cheers

[Finny]

I still can't get it to work

I have tried every thing I can think of and I just don't get any spark.

Here is how I now have it wired up.

So I have added the transistor icon so people can understand how igniters work. Basiclly the ECU sends a signal voltage to cyl 1, that signal hits the transistor in the igniter which is like a switch. The switch is then turns on while it is getting this signal voltage. The switch connects the negative on the coil pack to ground and because the possitive is already connected to 12v possitive at that stage the coil starts to charge. Coils are made up of 2 coils of wire, one coil is connected to the negative and positive terminals on the coil pack the other is connected to the spark plug lead and ground. the coils are wound together in the coil pack. While charging the primary coil creates a magnetic field being that it is essentially an electromagnet. Once the signal stops the magnetic field collapses really fast. This collapsing of the magnetic field makes a huge voltage charge on the secondary coil making it spark.

I hope I have got that all correct... this is purely off the top of my head from the little electrical knowledge that I do have. plz correct me if I am wrong.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Finny

[Finny]

I will order a microtech igniter from MAZFIX tommorow. I would have ordered one by now but you have to call them before 5pm and I work full time.. :S

[blind_elk]

Nissan coils have THREE connections - IGN power, earth, ignitor switch.

I strongly suspect that a Nissan ignitor will not work with a Bosch coil, which only has + and -.

Your revised wiring diagram will not work, because the ignitor will effectively supply +12V to the -ve of the coil when the ECU signals #1 to fire. That will negate the +12V being applied to the +ve of the coil, so there is no potential difference across the terminals of the coil.

Bosch make ignitor modules to work with "standard" coils. But you will probably need 1 per coil.

[Finny]

Nissan coils have THREE connections - IGN power, earth, ignitor switch.

I strongly suspect that a Nissan ignitor will not work with a Bosch coil, which only has + and -.

Your revised wiring diagram will not work, because the ignitor will effectively supply +12V to the -ve of the coil when the ECU signals #1 to fire. That will negate the +12V being applied to the +ve of the coil, so there is no potential difference across the terminals of the coil.

Bosch make ignitor modules to work with "standard" coils. But you will probably need 1 per coil.

This is why I am using an RB20 igniter as they don't use a 3 wire setup.

I did have this setup working, I have been driving this car for quite some time with this coil pack setup.

I have read a lot of threads where people have said you must use RB20 igniters when using my kind of non-3 wire coil packs setup.

But I have been looking at the PCB diagrams for RB25 igniters and I am nearly 100% sure that I wire up an RB25 igniter to run individual bosch coils.

I have a few RB25 igniters so I will try this out and see how I go tonight.

If I get any where I will write up some wiring diagrams to let you all know how it can be replicated.

Damn I wish I had an oscilloscope.

Edited December 8, 2009 by Finny

[blind_elk]

Sorry, but RB20 coils are a 3-pin connection. As are RB25 coils. All RB20 coils and S1 RB25 coils use an external ignitor box. S2 RB25 coils have the ignitor built into the individual coils. But they all have 3-pin connections - +12V, earth, and switch (either from ignitor or from ECU).

"blind elk" (no-eyed deer) how you got it to work before.

[Finny]

There are writeup on this forum and R31 club how to do the conversion that I have done. I know it works and it is a fairly common mod.