What The Hell Is Wrong?!? [mechanics Help!]

[haleja]

howdy, this is actually about my girlfriends MR2 (2l N/A engine0

the car recently had its timing belt changed as well as a fairely major service, and since we have had the car back it has no power at all.

as in, if your in first and floor it, it will take 20 sec to get to 4.000rpm (no joke..) it just doesnt have any power or torque.

idles allright yet under no load (clutch in/ neutral) it still takes a while to accelerate *(not as bad as under load)

what the hell is goin on? is the timing out a tooth? would bad timing affect the car this much? (fuel tank is nearly on E, could it be bad fuel?)

spark plugs were changed at service (is the gap wrong)?

im sorta out of ideas for what could be the reason for the shit house power, could be running on 3 cylinders [but doesnt run lumpy so i doubt it]?

- all i can think of is timing, but i did it myself with a mechanic ( im an apprentice), and was perfectly in, SO, IF it is out, it would only be a tooth (which i doubt) and if it was

would it be this devistating to the cars performance?

cheers for helpin.

[Silver_GT]

having the belt out a tooth can certainly give the performance issues you are describing here mate, check the simple things first, plugs, fuel filter etc, but it does sounds like a timing issue! Have a talk to the mechnic you did it with though, as im not a mechanic

[haleja]

yeah i think its timing as well, but as i said, when we put the belt on it was spot on, so im assuming it wouldnt be out by much if it has slipped or something. which then denotes that the car shouldnt be running THAT badly??? i dont know.

cheers for your thoughts.

[Dorigecko]

as soon as you got your car back it was running shit, right?

it could be a number of things. give us a run down of EXACTLY everything that you've done during this major service and timing belt replacement operation and we might be able to identify the problem. if you're an apprentice mechanic i'm assuming you might have written down exactly what you did, yes?

[haleja]

replaced alternator (pumping out 14+v when charging)

replaced spark plugs

replaced water pump

replaced timing belt

oil/filter change

coolant change

umm.. think thats about it.

the cars fuel guage reads fark all, so it could be a fuel thing (if the symptoms fit)

the spar plugs were speced for the car, but didnt check gaps (possibly too large?)

car engine temp is normal

idle is normal from what i recall (its not dramatically screwed)

operation sounds fine, maybe a bit gutless (but not running on 3 cyl. or misfiring)

hope it helps.

[Dorigecko]

fuel would definately be a possible culprit. change your fuel filter, run a full tank of 98 through it with about a cup or so of methylated spirits. injector cleaner is a good idea too. there are some great products around for injector cleaning.

also, your spark plugs. what part number are they?

engine i'm assuming is 3S GE?

Later model MR2s has a 1.1mm gap for spark plugs, 0.8mm for earlier model. check your spark plug gap. if it's too wide, it won't be getting a proper burn of the (from assumption) shit fuel.

part number of plugs should be BKR6EP-8 or -11.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Dorigecko

[Nic_A31]

Shit fuel tends to cause misfire and constant failure to combust can send it out of time. Your knock sensor will pick this up and your ECU should store a code and show the CEL light on if this occurs. Same thing for lack of spark...and you'll smell unburnt fuel in either case. It'll vibrate like a few cylinders arent running.

Sounds to me like timing.

Did you touch the distributor at all ? distributor cap placement ?

Is it gutless at the bottom end and has lots of power up the top end?

Could have advanced the timing all the way forward (nothing to do with teeth on the dizzy) - same affect as accelerating in a high gear ratio at low speed.

[Dorigecko]

Good point about the ignition timing, but that would also affect idle as well.

Test - does it ping like buggery? haha. if it does, yeah i'd say timing too advanced as well. and if it is, it'll run like shit with bad fuel anyway - not run awesome at higher RPM. would do with good fuel though.

check some stuff and get back to us.

[haleja]

yeah today ill check the plugs and give it some fuel if i get time,

MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! and thanks for your replys

[GTS4WD]

Do a comp test

[mad082]

Shit fuel tends to cause misfire and constant failure to combust can send it out of time. Your knock sensor will pick this up and your ECU should store a code and show the CEL light on if this occurs. Same thing for lack of spark...and you'll smell unburnt fuel in either case. It'll vibrate like a few cylinders arent running.

Sounds to me like timing.

Did you touch the distributor at all ? distributor cap placement ?

Is it gutless at the bottom end and has lots of power up the top end?

Could have advanced the timing all the way forward (nothing to do with teeth on the dizzy) - same affect as accelerating in a high gear ratio at low speed.

other way round. advancing the timing will give you better acceleration usually and retarding the timing will poor acceleration.

if you are a 100% sure that all the timing marks were lined up when installing the timing belt then i would but this as being the likely culprit.

[Dorigecko]

^^ advanced timing and shit fuel would give you pinging and sluggish acceleration.

seems to be a lot of factors in this issue, but i doubt very much it would be timing unless he didn't tension correctly and it's jumped a tooth.

yet another thing he needs to check, AFTER he does all the simple stuff like check plugs, put in some fuel and metho to clean it out along with new fuel filter.

[haleja]

havnt had the plugs out, but they are hte correct part for the car.

we put some fuel in it and straight away its running alot better.

i think theres still something up with it though. seems to lack power down low then when it hits the power band it takes off (like a normal car)

its just really quite shit before it hits it.

so solved = no power at all.. ever due to shit fuel

new symptom = runs meh (not as bad as before) before it hits power band, then takes off like it should once it hits it.

[haleja]

** i dont know if it takes off as well as before, but there is a noticable power gain when it hits it.

[Nic_A31]

@ Jason:

Its impossible for the dizzy to jump teeth...if its sitting high up enough to be able to jump teeth you won't be able to bolt it down properly and you won't be able to change the timing.

Possibly a bad alternator or grounding.

I've had this problem in my daily which Ive narrowed down to my alternator, and a while ago on my Cefiro I had the same problem, a massive surge of power once it reaches a certain RPM....I replaced the ground lead and battery and it ran perfectly after that.

[Dorigecko]

you fag. i meant timing belt, lol. not distributor!

either way, still sounds like fuel. clean your injectors, change your fuel filter, clean the shit out of the system. then she'll run uber sweet.

fuel pressure is lower at idle. once you bump up the revs, pressure builds and it'll squirt through where it should.

some good injector cleaner after a new filter. ryco works fine.

laughin.

simple problems are always c*nts because they make you worry about nothing. haha.

[haleja]

ahk, so still a fuel problem. that.. would be amazingly awesome.

i do NOT want to go back to the timing belt.

to replace it we needed to remove an engine mount, (3 piece, which 1 piece you cant remove unless you take the timing cover off at the same time, AND will not go in unless at the same time as the cover, which is near impossible as the mount piece needs to go in from the top and the cover from the bottom..)

so that amoung the general no room and an "impossible to get leverage to tension the tensioner" tensioner, makes ever looking at the timing belt a total C**T!

- although i can look at the top timing marks on the cams with the removal of a few bolts. - but cant turn the engine over (by hand) with out removing a wheel and probably lowering the engine/raising the car

anywho, im REALLY keen to fix it with out going through any of that. so a fuel issue would be a blessing.

-

so would we say the verdict is, that it has rand down to E, used some shit fuel (so it was running bad), which has also clogged the injectors/ blocked the filter, to leave the symptoms with the car?

i recon it sounds good... lol

[Nic_A31]

Diagnose fuel as far as changing the filter - that's it. Shit fuel has a very hard time accelerating and even holding idle.

If the teeth on the timing belt were out you'd probably smash a lifter pretty quick, if it was out of time on the belt and running, the knock sensor without a doubt would be picking this up and you'd be hearing/seeing some serious vibrations since at least half your cylinders wouldn't be firing properly.

If the timing was out one tooth on the distributor, the car isn't likely to fire at all, when mine was out by one tooth it wouldn't hold idle ... had to hold they key in START and it'd hold 200rpm for about half a second and then drop out...this might be different depending in firing sequence.

It has to be either the ignition timing, ignition problem (such as multiple faulty leads, sparks, timing too retarded/advanced etc) fuel delivery problem (multiple faulty injectors, pressure regulator, filter, etc) but not fuel itself.

This problem is still open to alot of possibilities, like the clutch dying, air flow metre, any quick ECU settings (that arent hard written) and in-cab controllers like SAFC resetting while the battery was disconnected, etc.

[haleja]

hmm, considering multiple problems would be a rare posibility, and the reaction from proper fuel. injectors could be an issue, or the filter.

i dont know if its a learning ECU, maybe its shit its self. and the dissy wasnt touched.

could be the leads if they got screwed when being changed (there 7.00mm leads rather than fact.)

[Nic_A31]

Leads - start there