Back Yard Race Fuel (DIY)

[Jay95R33]

Rev210,

So what sort of improvement do you think you've got out of this? Seat of the pants feel that is??

Also - is this stuff safe on our O2 sensors and cat converters?

I know that some of the race fuels can kill O2 sensors and cats, but I think that is becuase of their lead content.

Thumbs up for Rev210 for the extra power

[rev210]

Originally posted by BOOSTMEISTER

Thanks I appreciate that, will ask him when he calls....So can I run straight toluene? If so what ron rating would it be....You never learn unless you ask questions

Well toluene was used during the 'turbo era' of formula 1. Back when they were running 5bars(73psi) of boost in qualiying and 4bars(59psi) in race. The fuels were limited to 102 RON so 84% toluene and 16%n-heptane (has no octane rating to bring it back to 102). This fact should kill the debate about it being a 'dodgy' backyard ****tail. I posted this info the other day on the free horsepower thread on SDU.

Don't go running straight toluene in a hury, the formula 1 cars had exhaust gas warming the petrol tank to help the toluene vaporise properly.

I think starting off with 10-15% and working up. I have about 25% running with a little more boost than normal and it works real well. Thats not to say that a slightly lower octane mix might even go better if it combusts more effectively.

[rev210]

Originally posted by Jay95R33

Rev210,

So what sort of improvement do you think you've got out of this?  Seat of the pants feel that is??

Also - is this stuff safe on our O2 sensors and cat converters?

I know that some of the race fuels can kill O2 sensors and cats, but I think that is becuase of their lead content.

Thumbs up for Rev210 for the extra power

The improvement is ;

* run more boost -- no pinging

* turbo spools slightly quicker and earlier --- hotter exhaust gas

* engine makes more power and is more responsive --- back of the seat you can feel (unlike off the shelf octane boosters).

Im not sure about the O2 & cat , if people can run unleaded race fuels and not worry it won't be a problem.

Have fun:D

[b2barker]

A link to a thread was put on here or SDU a week or so ago that has good info on octane boosting.

It is a very long thread so here is a summary:

1) A number of octane booster bottles were tested (using a tester used by NASCAR and others) and it was found none of increased octane by more than 0.6. Some bottles say "increases octane by up to six points", meaning 96 goes to 96.6 not 102.

2) It is suggested that these booster bottles do increase power possibly using long change molecules that deaden and/or change the frequency of the ping picked up by your knock detector. ie. your knock detector doesn't pick up the ping and doesn't retard therefore more power. :eek:

3) High octane fuels have a limitted tank life (as low as 40 days, in the servo tank and/or yours) due to venting of the good stuff. You should buy your HO fuel from a well used servo, rather than a backwater that take months to sell 20000L of 98 octane.

4) 10:1 is the recommend tolulene mix

Also I think it's the heat not the lead that kills O2 sensors.

[rev210]

Originally posted by b2barker

A link to a thread was put on here or SDU a week or so ago that has good info on octane boosting.

4) 10:1 is the recommend tolulene mix

Also I think it's the heat not the lead that kills O2 sensors.

If heat kills O2 sensors mine should have died along time ago. I've got my dump pipe wrapped up with DEI tape, No heat can escape (poor O2 sensor) you can hold onto the dump pipe with your bare hand even when the pipe underneath is red hot.

[MIKGTR]

BOOSTMEISTER : I ran up to 50% at one stage but started running in to problems on cold/rainy days, it was a very high comp NA engine and it would blow condensation out the exhaust even when engine was red hot, I contacted Shell tech department and they recommended 30% as a max mixed with avgas.

[Gradenko]

Originally posted by rev210

A reason why octane boosters will work better with the Caltex 98(vortex its called here) is it has 5+% Aromatics.

Just to be pedantic, I wouldn't consider vortex as 98RON fuel. Although the fact the fuelwatch (http://www.fuelwatch.wa.gov.au) doesn't include vortex in they're list of 98RON fuel isn't proof by itself, Caltex, by their own admission rate vortex as being no lower than 96RON. http://www.caltex.com.au/products_oil_detail.asp?id=15

Comparatively, ultimate98 is rated as no lower than 98RON. https://www.distributor.bp.com.au/jsp/catal...ils.jsp?pid=877

In any case, the toluene mix sounds like a plan I may try

[BOOSTMEISTER]

I just picked up 2 20L drums of Toluene from BP ($48 each) and will mix it 40/60 which basically means that on an empty tank use all 20L then fill it up with Ultimate....Just enough to tune with then get to the drags and run:D

[fatz]

rev210

100% sutff where when and how much?

looking for some

pete

[rev210]

Originally posted by fatz

rev210

100% sutff where when and how much?

looking for some

pete

Boostmeister has the right idea, ring your BP distribution center and go buy some. Remember to reffer to it as a "Solvent" and not a fuel. Don't mention that you are using it as a fuel -- say " I need it to clean engine parts and stuff".

$48 for 20L is excellent and its straight from the refinery to you. You can't anything as pure as that!

On a factory ECU note; whilst my 25% mix worked well ( I ran 14psi+ through my factory ic without my refrigeration on and it didn't ping, since turned it back to 10psi for long term use) I think its a good idea to reset the ECU and re-learn the fuel map to suit the higher octane. Reset it again when you switch back to normal.

[Morgs]

Has anyone encountered any side effects with use of it? What sort of performance benefits are you talking in the real world with using a mix like this?

[rev210]

Originally posted by Morgs

Has anyone encountered any side effects with use of it? What sort of performance benefits are you talking in the real world with using a mix like this?

73psi/ 5 bar of boost (1200HP) on the F1 engines in the old turbo days using toluene real world enough for you?

Side effects ;

uncontrolled grin ,

a lack of pinging under very high loads,

wheel spin.

[MIKGTR]

I've used it for years in superbikes and also in 500cc MX bikes......never had any dramas as long as I didn't use than more than 30%.

I don't think there is any thing perculiar to Turbo/EFI cars that would cause a problem.

Other additives can make rubber hoses and plastic components brittle over time, alcohol in particular, but I've had no problem with Tolulene/Methyl-Benzene..

[benm]

Interesting discussion....

So Rev210 how long have you been using this stuff for ?

Also have you done any before / after dyno runs to see the difference ?

Sounds like a nice idea but then again if its that good why isn't everyone doing ie (everyone been all HPI cars).

[Bo0sT_JuNkY]

Originally posted by rev210

If heat kills O2 sensors mine should have died along time ago. I've got my dump pipe wrapped up with DEI tape, No heat can escape (poor O2 sensor) you can hold onto the dump pipe with your bare hand even when the pipe underneath is red hot.

I think that turbo cars have a more heat tolerent o2 sensor as a turbos exhaust will heat up much more than a n/a car .When i had my turbo civic it melted the wiring in my 02 sensor cause of the extra heat i wrote it off as being a o2 sensor that wasnt designed for temps that hi.

But to clear this up a bit for me .

I should buy 100% tolulene or a less pure mix?

then mix it 10:1 im assuming 10 parts petrol to 1 part toluene

With premium petrol which most of us use anyway.

[4 Doorz]

Buy 100% toluene and mix it down...like getting cordial, the more concentrate, the more brews you can make

I dunno what is with your suppliers, but here in QLD, we can get 20L of Toluene for $42 in good grade...have tried up to 30% and it's still running strong. Is it true for you guys down south that whilst getting it from a BP depot, you didn't need at CAMS license?

[antuanstylar]

This Toluene hardens rubber, not really corodes but this means you have a higher chance of your fuel lines to crack

[antuanstylar]

i suppose it depends what mixtures you use but i wouldnt use it, just wait a while until the new 102 rated octane fuel comes to oz

[rev210]

Originally posted by antuanstylar

This Toluene hardens rubber, not really corodes but this means you have a higher chance of your fuel lines to crack

toluene does not harden fuel line rubber. If it did (which it doesn't) then ordinary petrol would do exactly the same.

Your thinking of methanol, which does promote corrosion of metal parts and rubber lines. Alcohol is water soluble which is the problem.

I can assure you that toluene is quite easy to use and the car loves it.

[Jay95R33]

Does toluene have a shelf life??

I know (thinking back to the petrol RC car days ) that some nitro fuels have a self life of about a month, then they are useless.

Just wondering if we can get a 20l drum and sit it in the garage and just use it for drags every few months ?

J