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[Snowman]

I joined team underdog when I bought this CA18 S13

I expected Baron or Snowy to chime in with some GT-R love...

What I "want" is a GT-R that doesn't get caught by lesser powered cars and that doesn't cost 50% more to build

Ok I will chime in now for you

I've been reading this with interest. For what it is worth I DO have some GT-R love - I wouldn't be building another one right now if this wasn't the case.

My Blue GT-R I had for 7 years which I bought originally as what you want which was a fast street car I could do some motorsport in. In that time it has been through a zillion different builds depending on what I wanted to do at the time - but when it finally ran its last race it was still essentially a fast street car with a cage. The thing is though even back as a standard package it was still pretty fast by your avergae car standards. With just a Power FC, Exhaust, Cam Gears and Semi's I managed a 1.49 @ PI and we've seen JFK do a 1.22 @ Sandown. The reality is no matter what is under you going faster than those times is going to be more about your head than anything else.

That being said my Blue R34 in the end was only used as a race-car. But even though we had some top results it was comprimised as a race car because it was built originally with a street car in mind. My new White one is being built now soley as a race car and I'm quite sure it will be a lot faster than the old one was as a consequence.

If you want a GT-R I say go for it. If its a street car base you won't win super lap and will get beaten by Newton at Sandown - but you will still be fast enough to be happy - and potentially fast enough to win the right events if you are good enough. If you want real real fast then go light weight and buy an RX7

[No Crust Racing]

What do you see to be the main factors differentiating a fast street car that doubles as track capable to a purpose built track car.

A cage, stripped interior including dash, no creature comforts etc?

[Snowman]

My Blue car had a cage - but also had things like the full Stereo (including 6 speaker system and a DVD player), full climate control, full interior including all the internal trim, the back seats and floor mats! Obviously front seats were race seats and you couldn't get into the rear at all with the cage but having that in there meant the car was quiet to drive in (so I could hear my stereo!), at the right temperature all the time and was just a generally nice comfortable place to be whether I was racing or driving to events. I drove my car everywhere which was why I wanted it that way. But it weighed in at 1690kgs.

The new car I'm hoping to get down to around 1550kgs or better, but it will be loud, smelly (will probably get some fuel smells from the boot I'm expecting), hot and not a lot of fun to be in when its not going flat out. But it should be faster, more reliable (less mechanical stresses due to less weight) and consequently a more fun race car as well.

[No Crust Racing]

And you took out some events in that car didn't you? What power was it making?

[BBGTR]

What do you see to be the main factors differentiating a fast street car that doubles as track capable to a purpose built track car.

A cage, stripped interior including dash, no creature comforts etc?

Having something similar to Snowy's setup (R32 though) I'll throw my ideas in as well. I have a full weight street set-up and a very nice 3/4 cage - so I'm well over stock weight.

For me, some of the biggest advantages of a race car are (in no particular order)

- you can ditch everything behind the dash and just keep the dash itself, including the heater, water lines, extra wiring loom, sound deadening - some weight there.

- be far more thorough with your cage design

- do a proper job of ducting and cooling without the restrictions of factory equipment and placement

- more agressive weight reduction (remove side intrusion bars, fit lexan windows etc)

- change suspension pick ups to allow for a more track bias and greater adjustment

I've run my street weight setup for 5 years and it's been a great, reliable car. Yep they are more expensive to setup than a 2wd but if money is a critical factor then you can go faster for less in a different car. Comes down to what you are passionate about and what you can afford to be passionate about.

I think the only thing I would do differently is not buy a mint example and mod it for the track. I would buy the straightest, cleanest bodied R32 GT-R I could find with a blown engine and start from there - reckon I would have saved $10k - $15k right there.

Regards

Andrew

[No Crust Racing]

Cheers Andrew, I think I've seen your car at winton on one of the WRX Club days?

For me I think I'd buy a built platform purely for the cost savings, it's not as much fun as doing it yourself but I'll get plenty of wrench time maintaining and repairing it I'm sure.

[Snowman]

Dutton Victoria in 2007 and Targa Rookie 2009 both of which we won it was making around 380rwkw's.

Last year at Targa Tas Early Modern - which I won for about 30mins before I got DQ'd for running the wrong gearbox (which made no difference in speed for this arguement) I was running around 320rwkws - but the car was FASTER than what it was the year before when it was making 380rwkws as it was much better out of corners. (But will hopefully be back upto around the 350+ mark with it running on E85 now)

But power isn't the major factor at Targa by a long shot. Drew Jorgensons R32 GTR which makes around 320rwkws is an epic race car and has finished as high as 3rd Outright @ Mt Buller getting beaten only by J. Richards in his Porka and one other car.

BUT - I have to personally say that whilst being competative is great I don't think winning is everything. The reality is come TT2011 Early Modern if all things are equal I'm likely to get beaten by Wooster in his R32 GTST and Newton in his EMO IV - both of which will no doubt have costed half of what my car did to build (can add Rick Shaw in his RX7 to that list too if he turns up!) If I was dead keen to win it next year I would have built an R33 400R replica instead of another R34 - but I think you have to love your car first and get results second. I do anyways.

[No Crust Racing]

Well if a big phat R34 can come away with some wins and 320awkw, I reckon a 33 could do the same as that's about what I'd be looking for power wise, and likewise maybe a touch more on E85. I'm also willing to do away with some creature comforts for what tiny gain there is.

(Thank you Caltex for getting on board with Holdens Flex Fuel crap so we can all have E85! )

Edited August 4, 2010 by ActionDan

[sav man]

Top Gear top tip, don't fit lexan. Nissan glass is already light, a local car paid big $$ to replace his glass with lexan...only to find the lexan was heavier.

Edited August 4, 2010 by sav man

[No Crust Racing]

Just to clarify too, what I want is a fast track car that's also capable of being a streeter. Not so much the other way around, it's more important that it be good on the track/sprint/hill climb. I'm willing to change rims/tyres, brake pads, and soften the suspension settings to drive it on the street though. I'd still like air con, but the stereo and back seats I don't care about and I don't mind crawling over a cage

[No Crust Racing]

Nice on Sav

What's the consensus on underdrive pulleys?

[sav man]

depends on the rev's, and what the pump's optimum speed is. I know N1 water pums are good a high rpm, but can over heat in town cause they don't flow enough at that engine speed.

[Marlin]

Top Gear top tip, don't fit lexan. Nissan glass is already light, a local car paid big $$ to replace his glass with lexan...only to find the lexan was heavier.

Yeah true. I was astounded with how light the rear window is on 32's.

I think most guys use lexan for the cock factor..... nothing wrong with cock mind you (i don't like cock, but do have some, only a little though).

I hear Benson loves it.

[Nee-san]

+ 1 for s14.

This is Ashley Barnetts IPRA s14 and wins its fair share of races even against the IPRA V8 and 4wd mob at Barbagello....here's a link to an example of its most recent performance.

I posted the link because all turbo cars in IPRA run restrictors and the drivers are experienced....so this provides some sort of parity engine mod wise and driver wise. It runs on E85, wears 255 semi's all round. Engine hp isn't huge obviously because of the restrictor.

Average speed was 134klm/h in that above race and top speed is around 225 klms for the car.

That thing is fecking fast !

[No Crust Racing]

No more talking about S-Chassis, this thread should now be devoted to all the reasons why GT-Rs are awesome.

[Nee-san]

No more talking about S-Chassis, this thread should now be devoted to all the reasons why GT-Rs are awesome.

Deal, I have a 32 GT-R that i'm just beginning to modify for a little bit of track work I like the whole regular street driven occasional track car thing and a GT-R is almost perfect for those duties, if you keep it sensible and do as much of the work yourself as possible then I think its possible to get away with a reasonably quick car for a reasonable dollar.

Another thing to consider is that the advantage of the GT-R's AWD system or that of any AWD over the RWD is directly proportional to the power output of the car that is, its a bigger advantage the more power you run generate.

This is not to say that there are not high powered real wheel drive cars out there, because any one who tells you that is having a good pull on your leg, just have a look at some of the guys in this thread.

[No Crust Racing]

Side note: Snowy what makes the 400R replica a good idea? I'm guessing it comes with 18's so can run bugger brakes and fit the rules? I know it had more power factory but you're allowed to modify a car for Targa anyway aren't you?

[Snowman]

You can run 18's on an R32 GTR for Targa (can run +2' on both height and width from factory sizes)

400R for Targa can run a bigger exhaust (normal GT-R's can only run a 3" - 75mm exhaust) plus can run a 2.8L engine. I could do both if I ran my car as a Z Tune (and run bigger turbo's) - but then that puts the car out of Early Modern (1984-2002) and into Mordern against the Lambo's, Porka's and R35's since the Z Tune was technically a 2005 car.

But both of those things on the 400R equate to a LOT of extra HP (the exhaust is the big one!) and the extra engine makes the car better again out of corners which is what you really want in a Targa car.

[No Crust Racing]

Ahh I didn't know it was a 2.8L. I'm assuming for cost saving you just get a 2.6 and stroke it rather than using a genuine 2.8L block from Nissan/Nismo 0_0

Edited August 4, 2010 by ActionDan

[sav man]

you can run a 80mm exhaust in targa, your allowed 15% oversized, and std GT-R is 70mm

I think you can still buy a complete 400r engine from the company that made them (reitec or somthing)

Edited August 4, 2010 by sav man