A Step by Step Guide to STOP THE CHANGES to the 15 Year Rule

[Guest]

I thought you all might be interested in these from the MTA.

YOU HAVE TO READ THIS TO UNDERSTAND WHO YOU ARE AGAINST.

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/at...achmentid=11545

[nengun]

Every day I am away from AUS I realize how the average Australian is getting screwed over. You people ought to get together on a cruise. Travel down to Parliament Place and do some serious drift work outside of Johnny’s office. LOL

[The_Paladin]

we could protest the war while we're there...........

do you think the government has the balls to say that less imports will cause less accidents on the road? i can see them saying that if there is a lot of resistance to the law changes...

[Edge]

Every day I am away from AUS I realize how the average Australian is getting screwed over. You people ought to get together on a cruise. Travel down to Parliament Place and do some serious drift work outside of Johnny’s office. LOL

Is Japan much better?

Are protests a commonplace thing there? Does the government listen?

Something I always wanted to know, what are the taxes like there?

[Edge]

Japan shaken is actually about the same price as NSW registration costs if you consider 2 years shaken is the same as 2 years of registration in NSW.

So that debunks the theory of being taxed off the road.

The cars are simply better quality there than here - and for the price of 15yo cars they are taking the place of even older and lower quality australian cars at the same price. Pushing the rust buckets into the grave. Imported cars have to be in good condition and meet Australian standards. NOT trying to get around SEVS but trying to get better quality safer cars at cheaper endof market. Its for the consumers benefit, not the car manufacturers.

The shaken system in Japan simply makes replacement of faulty and damaged parts mandatory requirement for registration. Therefore the quality of these cars is maintained better than Australia. Now if you have such a system of high standards here it would put transport costs up even further for the battlers of Australia, a political no no. Why then are they trying to prevent battlers from getting quality cars at cheaper prices instead of requiring higher standards since the argument is aging cars and safety?

As for asbestos brake pads - they get changed to Australian standard when they get complied! How hard is that?

So the MTA is motivated by the manufacturers who want to force us to buy their cars new at high prices. IT IS PROTECTIONISM

The ridiculous thing is they then try to tell us we are buying 15 year old cars as direct replacements for new ones by saying we are trying to get around SEVS which is also trying to get around buying Aussie manufacturers new cars? They are taking it too far. They are scared the 15yo R32 is so good that they need to stop imports of it so that new cars will sell! These cars are not replacements for new cars, they are replacement for second hand ones! Tell them to use common sense.

They are certainly gloating over the reduction of newer imports. It is nothing to do with standards at all!

We need to take a different view of imports over 15 yo and market them as quality replacements of rust buckets to the battlers of Australia and make it political. Of course that would still let us do up our cars much nicer than them so we can still be elite.

Perhaps some of the importers can send out a letterbox drop advertising import high quality and safety 15yo cars with a camparison of features for your $ compared to australian rust bucket cars available at comparable prices. Just think how many you'd sell.

Those importers can also still run seperate enthusiasts advertising - say in magazines.

Industry representation for 15 yo importers as a group. It hasn't been around very long, but 15yo importers could make an industry representation NonGovernmentOrganisation.

Please do it for the safety and better cars for the battlers of Australia.

This body could take up their issue with MP's in places like Western Sydney, where it could become a political issue during elections.

[The_Paladin]

agreed.............there seems to be a belief that stopping imports will increase the new car sales which, of course, isnt true. people who want a new aussie car have a different mindset to someone wanting a 15yo jap import.......its a different market.

this kind of BS happens all the time, people abusing positions of power to infulence the markets. i bet johnny has a lot of holden shares or something..............

another interesting case of that happening was in france (i think, somewhere in the EU) a chick politition is campaigning for anti-piracy laws to protect the music industry. her husband is an exectuive for a record company..........go figure. it's alteriar motives. i bet a lot of the government are steakholders in the car market.....

[ian]

..

The cars are simply better quality there than here - and for the price of 15yo cars they are taking the place of even older and lower quality australian cars at the same price. Pushing the rust buckets into the grave...

Edge, good points, I agree entirly! But unfortunatly, you show a distict ability to know what you are talking about, and that ISN'T the process used by some people in Canberra.. :-)

Ian

A couple more posts from me to come below.. :-)

[ian]

DOTARS has extended the time for submissions till the 27 March 2004, so if you haven't got one in yet, get cracking! :-)

How did I find this out? From the NCC, not DOTARS, even though they KNOW that I'm heavily involved with this issue...

Read an email response I got from NCC at

http://r34skyline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=22

One other bit of news, my main submission has been downloaded over three thousand times from my web site.. :-)

Ian

[ian]

Every day I am away from AUS I realize how the average Australian is getting screwed over. You people ought to get together on a cruise. Travel down to Parliament Place and do some serious drift work outside of Johnny?s office. LOL

Hi Negun

Was this originally a longer post? On the notification email I got the below text - which made some good points! (...it's been a few years since I had to do a shaken)

>>>>

I just had a read of this letter and thought I would throw in my 2 cents

Lets address this first comment in the letter

a) ?Whether the vehicle was the age that it was supposed to be, and?

In order to send a vehicle out of Japan you have to send the disuse registration papers to customs here in Japan. I couldn?t imagine someone changing the Chassis No. They would be onto it right away. At times you can buy a perfect looking GTR34 for around $12,000 AUS or less but it will say Buhin Tori which means it is to be pulled apart and it has no paperwork. ( ie the vehicle has been stolen and recovered or it?s a repo ) NO PAPERWORK CAN`T SEND A CAR OUT OF THE COUNTRY.

Next comment

B) ?if it is, whether it is in a fit state for use in Australia, including concerns about asbestos brakes and exhaust fittings?.

B) About 3 or 4 years ago every vehicle over a certain age had to have a yearly shaken. Which basically means taking your car over the pits. Now it is every 2 years. So every 2 years whether your vehicle needs or not the exhaust is checked, the performance mods have to come off (this is one of the reasons why there is so many used parts here) brake pads have to changed etc etc . 15 years ago the brake pads had asbestos in them but I couldn?t imagine someone driving for 15 years on one set of original pads. Off course they would have been changed) also the vehicle has to go over the pits in Aus. Do you think they are going to let faulty exhaust go through.

1. ?Why are there 15 year old vehicles still available in Japan when they are virtually taxed off the road after 5 years.?

This next statement. I don?t know which hat they pulled this one out of. I have two vehicles here in Japan. The second vehicle is 15 years old. The shaken (equivalent to taking your vehicle over the pits) was 120,000 Yen $1445 AUS for 2 years (This includes 3rd party insurance)+ the road tax was 51,000 Yen $614 AUS a year for smaller vehicles is 31,000 Yen a year $373 AUS

The reason why Japanese change there vehicles is not a ?Tax matter ? its more of a cultural matter. When you buy a new car here in Japan you can drive it for 3 years without renewing the shaken. After 3 years they trade in or sell there relatively used new vehicles. The have the funds from the 3 year old vehicle to purchase an updated model. Also the Japanese think that after 3 years with an average of 30,000kms on the clock that the vehicle may be prone to breakdown thus repairs will be costly so they upgrade. Hell if a car has 100,000 kms on it then that vehicle is over the hill and gone.

Every day I am away from AUS I realize how the average Australian is getting screwed over. You people ought to get together on a cruise. Travel down to Parliament Place and do some serious drift work outside of Johnny?s office.

[Guest]

In May DOTR's recommends what they think to a certain Senator, and his decision should come out in August and will most likely be what DOTR's recommends.

So putting a late submission in of a cut and paste from a site that DOTR's are not listening to (that is why they didnt inform you).

People in the industry are who they are listening to not the consumer, broker, fly by nighter or back yarder, they are listening to Licenced Dealers, RAWS workshops, MTA and VICCA.

And the final decision will be what the industry wants to move forward.

[predator]

August? I was wondering what was happening with this. I thought a decision would be handed down much sooner than this.

If so ...

[R32-GTST]

When is it predicted that the 15+ year import rule will be abolished?

Also, if I purchase an import now through Prestige Motorsport, but have to wait til July this year b4 it can be imported into OZ bcos it's build date is 7/89, and the 15+ year rule ends b4 July this year, does it mean I wont be able to get my pre-purchased import here in to oz??? even though I purchased the import when the 15+ year rule was applicable?

[Guest]

The decision should not take affect until 01/01/2005.

[zsky]

Please note that the DOTARS deadline for sending in response forms has been extended by one month to 27th March. So if you still want to have your say, then you should fax in your response form ASAP, you only have 7 more days.

The response so far

DOTARS officers have already admitted publicly that there has been overwhelming support for retaining the 15 year rule as it is. However, they have justified this by blaming it on "the internet", ie. they think that despite the huge response from individual people, the fact that many of the submissions they have received have similar arguments for retaining the 15 year rule or have been sent by e-mail somehow makes them less important. This is despite the fact that every response is from a different person who has a right to have their say.

That they feel they can dismiss the feedback (that they have asked for) in this way is a gross insult to everyone who is genuinely concerned about this issue and has taken the time to respond. It smacks of a Government Department that thinks they can do what they like despite the weight of public sentiment clearly being in one direction. Further, it is an indication that the consultation process is a sham -- simply going through the motions before continuing on a pre-determined course of action.

It will certainly be interesting to see what arguments are trotted out in the face of such overwhelming support for retaining the rule.

We have requested meetings with the relevant Ministers to discuss the issue along with other industry stakeholders, but we are still getting the runaround.

So what next ?

Please keep the pressure up until the end of the consultation process (27th March). Encourage everyone who has an opinion on the issue to take a stand and write letters to politicians (see Step 2 below) as well as sending in a DOTARS response form (Step 1 below). After 27th March, public opinion will be silenced and DOTARS will start making their decision (or at least prepare a justification for the decision already made).

Anyone who has not had their say already and feels strongly on the issue, should send in their response forms en masse and write as many original letters to the politicians as possible setting out why the 15 year rule should stay.

Make sure that your responses are written and signed, so there can be no discounting their weight. If you have only sent an e-mail in so far, then please take the time to fax them a response form and send a short letter to each of the politicians concerned.

At the end of the public consultation process, we expect DOTARS to prepare a report outlining the responses received from industry and the public. At this stage we feel it is unlikely that this report will be made available to the public as this would be counter-productive to the DOTARS arguments.

They have also indicated that an announcement of their decision on the future of the 15 year rule could be made around August 2004. They have said that this will be a "judges decision is final" announcement.

So the next 7 days look like the only chance for members of the public to have any influence on the changes.

Complaining to the National Competition Council (NCC)

The NCC has already had a look at the compliance of the car industry with competition standards, and it clearly doesn't comply. Read either the full papers (see links below) to see what they had to say about SEVS and DOTARS last time around or have a look at the relevant extracts - part 1, and part 2. It makes for interesting reading. See Step 3 below for how to contact the NCC.

http://www.ncc.gov.au/pdf/AST5LR-003.pdf

http://www.ncc.gov.au/pdf/AST5LR-013.pdf

[zsky]

Goals of the NCC

Two of the NCC's goals:

to facilitate timely implementation of effective and fair competition reforms by governments;

to promote competition policy as an ‘economic tool' for enhancing Australia's performance and productivity;

Contacting the NCC

Please send your submissions to:

National Competition Council

GPO Box 250B

Melbourne VIC 3001

Or if you want to go and see them, or phone:

National Competition Council

Level 9

128 Exhibition Street

MELBOURNE VIC 3000

Telephone: (03) 9285 7474

Facsimile: (03) 9285 7477

www.ncc.gov.au

[zsky]

In SEVS workshops held in Melbourne and Sydney last week, a senior DOTARS officer (name available on request) admitted overwhelming support for retaining the 15 year rule as it is. However, in his next sentence this was countered by contempt for those who had sent in responses. Not that this is a responsible way to treat legitimate responses, however it plays into their hands to send them e-mails which they can easily ignore, or responses which raise all sorts of options of how to handle the issue which are outside their format for requesting feedback.

Given what DOTARS are saying, there is no doubt at all that they have a pre-determined path and that the large response they have received to keep the rule as it is simply gets in their way. They will certainly steam-roll over it if they are allowed to get away with it. That they feel they can do this is shocking enough.

There is a real risk that they will use this argument to discount a proportion of the responses received in the last 6 weeks, which would be a sound slap in the face for those who have taken the time to respond.

We have given some thought as to how best to counter this. The obvious answer is that to raise an undiluted and undeniable voice against the proposed changes and to give the best chance of success, everyone who has not already done so should complete and fax / post in the DOTARS response form before 27th March. If you have sent in an altered form, or have sent an e-mail, or any other response without using their standard form for comments, they are likely to dismiss your opinion and exclude it from their feedback altogether.

You can download the DOTARS response form in Adobe Acrobat at: http://www.r34skyline.com/politics/dotar/d...tions_paper.pdf

The fact remains that if there is a very large response in favour of keeping the rule as it is, even DOTARS will find it difficult to justify making a decision that goes so much against public opinion. Your letters to the politicians (as indicated previously) and to your local members also sends a message that this issue has political ramifications, which may push the issue in the right direction.

If you agree that we should be able to continue importing vehicles older than 15 years, then now is the time to make a stand before we lose them. Let your friends and family know about the kind of cars they will be missing out on at such good prices if the rule changes. BUT we need your help this week, before 27th March.

Once the response period is finished, we will endeavour to obtain copies of the DOTARS follow-up report (through the Freedom of Information Act if necessary), and make these available to the Mailing List so that everyone who is interested in this topic can see how the issue is addressed. If there is any evidence of an unbiased approach, we will then encourage complaints to the appropriate bodies which oversee the decisions of Govt. Departments, as well as pursuing other avenues of complaint.

[Edge]

ok hand written it is.

whoops

zsky

THANKS FOR THE INFO ON THE FORM REQUIRED

As it will be needed so they don't dismiss my handwritten letter based on not having used the correct form.

It is a bit like voting and using ticks instead of crosses in the boxes as specified and then not having your vote counted on a technicality.

edit - I just finished my handwritten submission using the correct form zsky has provided. I have put it in a business DL size envelope and hand addressed it to Mr Ross Docherty at D.O.T.A.R.S. to be mailed on Monday morning inside a certified delivery envelope.

Having these cars available to push lower quality cars at the same price off the road will doubtless save many Australian lives and possibly even my own. And that is worth more than the postage money.

[predator]

Its always best to send off in printed form anyhow to any beaurocratic department. Emails to them are often just "fluff" and not for any official function. Many beaurocrats aren't the smartest bunch.

Writing an email would be pointless for something like this to get your opinion heard.. thats why i sent a letter.

[ian]

ok  hand written it is.

whoops

zsky  

THANKS FOR THE INFO ON THE FORM REQUIRED

As it will be needed so they don't dismiss my handwritten letter based on not having used the correct form.

It is a bit like voting and using ticks instead of crosses in the boxes as specified and then not having your vote counted on a technicality.

edit - I just finished my handwritten submission using the correct form zsky has provided. I have put it in a business DL size envelope and hand addressed it to Mr Ross Docherty at D.O.T.A.R.S. to be mailed on Monday morning inside a certified delivery envelope.

Having these cars available to push lower quality cars at the same price off the road will doubtless save many Australian lives and possibly even my own. And that is worth more than the postage money.

Yep, I made that form from what dotars originally sent out :-) Quite a lot of people have downloaded it from my site, and my main submission has been downloaded in excess of 3000 times... :-)

[ian]

Its always best to send off in printed form anyhow to any beaurocratic department. Emails to them are often just "fluff" and not for any official function. Many beaurocrats aren't the smartest bunch.

Writing an email would be pointless for something like this to get your opinion heard.. thats why i sent a letter.

I agree entirely - which is why I advised only sending an email as a last resort - if you didn't have any time to a 'snail mail' response.. :-)