Fuel Pump Questions

[T.D]

Hey, I'm about to do my next round of mods to my manual S2 R33 GTS-t but after searching through various topics, I still have a few questions regarding replacing the stock fuel pump.

My current mods are as follows:

- Blitz turnflow front mount

- Blitz Sus Power pod

- JJR 3" dump/front pipe

- 3" X-force high flow cat

- Kakimoto 3.5" cat back

Upcoming mods:

- Greddy E-manage

I'm chasing roughly 190-200rwkw (trying to stay at 10psi for the turbos sake) and long term plan includes a high flowed turbo (~240-250rwkw) and after reasearching, I'm tussling between a Bosch 040 and a Walbro 255lph pump because they are both within my budget. I played with the idea of a tomei or a nismo straight drop in pump, but decided to go with either the bosch or walbro.

Now my questions are:

1) Between the bosch and walbro, which one is more "plug and play"? I want something that will drop in with little to no modifications and without too much messing around of the wires.

2) I hear about people having problems when running low fuel or taking corners with an aftermarket pump. I read that the Walbro drops in to more or less the stock position, cos I wouldn't have the low fuel/cornering problem. True?

3) What is this mod that I see in threads regarding about a constant power feed to the pump (12v mod r 14v mod or something like that)?

4) For my current power level goals of 190-200rwkw, will the stock fuel reg and injectors be sufficient?

I'm sort of leaning towards the Walbro because alot of people say it slots in pretty easily, can handle the power I'm chasing now (and in future) and I won't have such problems with the engine cutting out due to cornering or low fuel. If anyone thinks what I've wrote is wrong, please enlighten me before I make a purchase on either of these pumps.

Cheers.

Edited January 21, 2011 by turbodragon

[PM-R33]

Stock reg and injectors will be fine.

Honestly go the Tomei/Nismo. If you are not to mechanically minded you will struggle with the fuel pump install doing it right (any one can just wack a Walbro/Bosch in there, but to mount it correctly is a bit harder).

The wiring of the Walbro simply means giving it a different power wire that runs at 14V (what the alternator pushes out) instead of the factory 12V.

If you have to choose between the Walbro and the Bosch just go the Bosch.

[MrStabby]

1) Between the bosch and walbro, which one is more "plug and play"? I want something that will drop in with little to no modifications and without too much messing around of the wires.

2) I hear about people having problems when running low fuel or taking corners with an aftermarket pump. I read that the Walbro drops in to more or less the stock position, cos I wouldn't have the low fuel/cornering problem. True?

3) What is this mod that I see in threads regarding about a constant power feed to the pump (12v mod r 14v mod or something like that)?

4) For my current power level goals of 190-200rwkw, will the stock fuel reg and injectors be sufficient?

1 & 2: Cant comment much other than to say I originally bought a bosch for the GTR, but didnt like the way it didnt fit the cradle or use the fuel pick up sock, so i swapped it for a $200 more expensive sard.

3. Skylines have an earth switching pump controller. I think ppl get scared because they see 12v at idle, and dont realise this is because the controller has used a soft earth to drop the voltage. The controller switches the full 14+V when required. IMO the only reason to go for the direct earth is because the controllers can fail (mine did).

4. Most ppl who change fuel reg's waste their money. Typically its a hack to get a little bit more flow out of your injectors. Pretty sure the stock 370cc injectors are ok for 200kws but thats about their limit.

[Husky33]

out of a bosch and a walbro i would say the walbro is more plug and play, as it can pretty much fit into the same position as the stock fuel pump. With the bosch because it doesn't have a sock you'd need to modify the bracket slightly to move it further down.

If you do get a walbro, you can use the stand nissan sock instead which fits straight on, instead of the one in the kit. It's much longer and sits on a better angle

[bubba]

Bosch 044 mounted in tank with a stock-like sock filter setup.

[Char]

for over 300rwhp u will need to go bigger injectors, i woulndnt even touch ur fpr unless u change fuel rails.

there is no "better plug and play" fuel pump, they both have 2 wires and then cable tie them down. for ur question about taking cnrs, surging etc, u just measure the distance in ur fuel tank and install the pump accordingly, keep it nice and low in the tank and you'll be fine.

or u can do what commodore drivers do "DUrrrrr it surges while im doing dohnuts, can u guys install a NOS kit so when it surges i can just give it a quick hit of NOS?"

[T.D]

Stock reg and injectors will be fine.

Honestly go the Tomei/Nismo. If you are not to mechanically minded you will struggle with the fuel pump install doing it right (any one can just wack a Walbro/Bosch in there, but to mount it correctly is a bit harder).

The wiring of the Walbro simply means giving it a different power wire that runs at 14V (what the alternator pushes out) instead of the factory 12V.

If you have to choose between the Walbro and the Bosch just go the Bosch

Alright then, no worries. I'll keep the sock reg and injectors for now then. If my budget extended to it, I'd go the Tomei as after searching through the forums, they're a perfect replacement. Unfortunatley, it's abit out of reach so I'm just going to have to make do lol

Is there any reason why you choose the bosch over Walbro (personal preference or is one inferior to the other)? After scouting through the RB25 dyno sheets topic, I noticed alot of people using either of the two.

1 & 2: Cant comment much other than to say I originally bought a bosch for the GTR, but didnt like the way it didnt fit the cradle or use the fuel pick up sock, so i swapped it for a $200 more expensive sard.

3. Skylines have an earth switching pump controller. I think ppl get scared because they see 12v at idle, and dont realise this is because the controller has used a soft earth to drop the voltage. The controller switches the full 14+V when required. IMO the only reason to go for the direct earth is because the controllers can fail (mine did).

4. Most ppl who change fuel reg's waste their money. Typically its a hack to get a little bit more flow out of your injectors. Pretty sure the stock 370cc injectors are ok for 200kws but thats about their limit.

Oh ok then, but doesn't that mean the fuel pump is likely to burn out if it's running at a higher voltage constantly?

Yep, looks like I'm keeping the stock reg and injectors until I decide to push the envolope further with a Hypergear high-flow,

out of a bosch and a walbro i would say the walbro is more plug and play, as it can pretty much fit into the same position as the stock fuel pump. With the bosch because it doesn't have a sock you'd need to modify the bracket slightly to move it further down.

If you do get a walbro, you can use the stand nissan sock instead which fits straight on, instead of the one in the kit. It's much longer and sits on a better angle

Yeah that's what I've been reading too and is why I'm sorta leaning more towards it. So with the Walbro, I can use the stock nissan sock (no mods required) and it will give me the same fuel pickup as if I was using the standard pump (that is, I'm not going to have problems with having 1/4 tank of fuel or going around corners)? If so, then my mind is pretty much made up on the Walbro LOL

Any idea if the Bosch can use the standard nissan sock or does the dimensions of it require me to modify the bracket to get it working?

for over 300rwhp u will need to go bigger injectors, i woulndnt even touch ur fpr unless u change fuel rails.

there is no "better plug and play" fuel pump, they both have 2 wires and then cable tie them down. for ur question about taking cnrs, surging etc, u just measure the distance in ur fuel tank and install the pump accordingly, keep it nice and low in the tank and you'll be fine.

or u can do what commodore drivers do "DUrrrrr it surges while im doing dohnuts, can u guys install a NOS kit so when it surges i can just give it a quick hit of NOS?"

But if I mount it too low, won't I end up sucking up all the crap at the bottom of my tank?

[bubba]

A little searching would go a long way...

How to install a Bosch 044 in an R32 (pretty similar for all skylines): http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/topic/111401-bosch-044-intank-r32-gtr/

[Yeedogga]

I put a Bosch 040 (the one with the open mesh end) in my s2 R33 a while back.

I consider myself reasonably handy with the tools and it took me a few hours. The most difficult thing was getting the old threaded tank lid off- that thing was on TIGHT!

If you are using an 040 you will need to be wary of a few things:

1. The 040 is much wider than the standard pump- you may need to wiggle it around on the mounting bracket to get it in. I had to bend the mounting bracket a little to get it to sit right.

2. The 040 does not have a sock arrangement on the bottom- therefore the pump needs to be mounted lower down than the standard pump. You will need to cut the bottom off the mounting bracket to facilitate this. The problem with this is that there is a bit less clearance where the pump now sits (because it is lower in the tank). A bit of fiddling will most likely be required.

3. You will need to upgrade the wiring to run a pump like this.

I have had it in the car for maybe 18 months and no problems with it yet (touch wood).

[shaun123]

3. You will need to upgrade the wiring to run a pump like this.

Is it required or a good idea ?

[T.D]

A little searching would go a long way...

How to install a Bosch 044 in an R32 (pretty similar for all skylines): http://www.skylinesa...intank-r32-gtr/

I have spent quite literally hours searching through threads regarding fuel pumps. I'm not interested in a 044, but am considering between a 040 and a Walbro 255LPH. Thanks for the link anyway

I put a Bosch 040 (the one with the open mesh end) in my s2 R33 a while back.

I consider myself reasonably handy with the tools and it took me a few hours. The most difficult thing was getting the old threaded tank lid off- that thing was on TIGHT!

If you are using an 040 you will need to be wary of a few things:

1. The 040 is much wider than the standard pump- you may need to wiggle it around on the mounting bracket to get it in. I had to bend the mounting bracket a little to get it to sit right.

2. The 040 does not have a sock arrangement on the bottom- therefore the pump needs to be mounted lower down than the standard pump. You will need to cut the bottom off the mounting bracket to facilitate this. The problem with this is that there is a bit less clearance where the pump now sits (because it is lower in the tank). A bit of fiddling will most likely be required.

3. You will need to upgrade the wiring to run a pump like this.

I have had it in the car for maybe 18 months and no problems with it yet (touch wood).

Thanks for the info regarding your experience with the 040. I read that the Bosch unit will be too big for the cradle without cutting and bending the cradle. The other thing is, I want to run the standard nissan sock as it sits at the optimum angle and depth, hence why I'm leaning towards the Walbro unit as it can re-use it without too may dramas

[T.D]

Ok, so I've made up my mind to get a Bosch 044 and mount it in-tank. Reason being I can use the standard sock arrangement and not have surge problems when running low on fuel and/or cornering. From what I've read, will take abit of wiggling to get it fitted but I guess it's abit of a compromise between the 040 and Walbro lol

Now my new problem is, is there anyone in VIC who has done a pump install into a R33 GTSt and can offer assistance? I'm happy to pay in cash or beer, whatever suits you lol

I'm not too keen on getting a workshop to install it because:

1) I want to be able to see what and how everything is done, so if later on down the track I need to remove the pump, I can do so confidentley.

2) I'm gonna get charged a decent amount of coin by the workshop.

So if you can help, let me know

[Husky33]

I don't see how an 044 is a compromise between an 040 and a walbro, seeing as though it is bigger than both of them.

Also the standard sock arrangement won't fit on, you'll need to get an adaptor for a sock which can be put on the bottom of the 044. Doesn't come with the pump and you'll need to source it seperately, shouldnt be too hard though from a good bosch dealer.

Anyway for 240-250rwk i think an 044 is overkill, there is a thing as too much fuel.

[Yeedogga]

If I had my time again I might have used an 044 with the optional sock attachment instead of an 040... But like I said, I've had no problems.

The only issue (in my experience) with running a high volume pump like the 044 with a basically stock car is that the fuel can heat up a bit.

Because the volume of fuel being pumped out of the tank is significantly more than the motor is able to consume, alot of fuel goes through the fuel rail and back to the tank. It is heated up quite a bit on this journey. This is not helped by the pump (which also heats the fuel up some).

On a really hot day after driving for a while the sound of my pump changes- I think this is due in some part to the heat affected fuel in the tank causes cavitation in the pump.

Or i could just be imagining the whole thing. I don't really know.

[T.D]

I don't see how an 044 is a compromise between an 040 and a walbro, seeing as though it is bigger than both of them.

Also the standard sock arrangement won't fit on, you'll need to get an adaptor for a sock which can be put on the bottom of the 044. Doesn't come with the pump and you'll need to source it seperately, shouldnt be too hard though from a good bosch dealer.

Anyway for 240-250rwk i think an 044 is overkill, there is a thing as too much fuel.

I say its a compromise because I get to use the sock, but not having the ease of fitting like the Walbro unit lol

Oh ok then, what sort of fittings do I need?

LOL yeah I realise the 044 is overkill for 240-250rwkw, but I thought that any un-used fuel would come back to the pump anyway, as Yeedogga mentioned above.

Thanks for the input though

If I had my time again I might have used an 044 with the optional sock attachment instead of an 040... But like I said, I've had no problems.

The only issue (in my experience) with running a high volume pump like the 044 with a basically stock car is that the fuel can heat up a bit.

Because the volume of fuel being pumped out of the tank is significantly more than the motor is able to consume, alot of fuel goes through the fuel rail and back to the tank. It is heated up quite a bit on this journey. This is not helped by the pump (which also heats the fuel up some).

On a really hot day after driving for a while the sound of my pump changes- I think this is due in some part to the heat affected fuel in the tank causes cavitation in the pump.

Or i could just be imagining the whole thing. I don't really know.

Thanks for the info, I'll look up more regarding cavitation as I haven't read too much about it before

[Husky33]

its just a pre-filter attachment(sock)that should bolt right onto the 044.

Not sure where you'd get it from, try bursons or even repco

Edited January 24, 2011 by 180_mph

[SiR_RB]

got a Bosch 023 (big bro of 040) intank fuel pump waiting to go in mine, i was gona give it a go this weekend, but after reading some threads on how to install an 040 in a GTR, think il pay someone to do it, seems wayyy to hard :S

[T.D]

its just a pre-filter attachment(sock)that should bolt right onto the 044.

Not sure where you'd get it from, try bursons or even repco

Oh ok then, I'll give them a try then. I'll also give autobarn a try cos apparently they can do Bosch stuff on order too (Y)

got a Bosch 023 (big bro of 040) intank fuel pump waiting to go in mine, i was gona give it a go this weekend, but after reading some threads on how to install an 040 in a GTR, think il pay someone to do it, seems wayyy to hard :S

Hahaha sounded like me at the very beginning of my research

If you follow the tutorial, it seems pretty straight forward, but I understand what you mean though, cos I'm lacking the confidence to tackle it myself hahaha maybe try someone on the forum who has done it to give you a hand. That way you get to watch and learn, and also not have to pay the extra amount for a workshop to do it

[Beer Baron]

Honestly buying anything other than a nismo/sard/tomei drop in pump is nuts. Yes they cost more but are so easy to install and if being done in a workshop would bs no more than 30min labour vs much more for any walbro or Bosch install. Plus the Jap pumps are super reliable compared to the track record of walbro and even Bosch failures. Seriously the bolt in Jap pumps are worth every cent.