Stagea Modification!

[Freak1]

Hi throwing out some hooks for help on modifications on my Stagea !! Throw in everything from tyning to body modifications

Thanks in advance Per

[KiwiRS4T]

How much power do you want? How much money do you plan to spend?

1. Get a high flow filter for your airbox.

2. Get a 3in exhaust from the turbo back (up to 300kw) or bigger if you want more.

3. get a Nistune chip or aftermarket computer such as a Link and find a good tuner.

4. Bigger turbo, injectors, new fuel pump

5. Beefed up auto or change to manual with a good clutch

Better rotors, pads, Motul RBF600 brake fluid, braided lines, mastercylinder stopper.

Better sway bars, lower with Bilstein shocks, better tyres (and wheels).

That should keep you busy and poor!

[Freak1]

not shure on how much i want 500-600+ maybe right now there is not much money to spend

How much power do you want? How much money do you plan to spend?

1. Get a high flow filter for your airbox.

2. Get a 3in exhaust from the turbo back (up to 300kw) or bigger if you want more.

3. get a Nistune chip or aftermarket computer such as a Link and find a good tuner.

4. Bigger turbo, injectors, new fuel pump

5. Beefed up auto or change to manual with a good clutch

Better rotors, pads, Motul RBF600 brake fluid, braided lines, mastercylinder stopper.

Better sway bars, lower with Bilstein shocks, better tyres (and wheels).

That should keep you busy and poor!

[QWK32]

not shure on how much i want 500-600+ maybe right now there is not much money to spend

500-600hp ?!?. It's achievable, but will set you back a fair bit of coin. That's fully built rb25 with serious bolt-ons or rb30 territory, probably set you back a minimum of $15k.

To give you an idea I sunk about $6k-$7k worth of bolt-ons into my stagea and I'm only just at the 400hp mark. My engine is still unopened but id expect to pay the same amount again to get it built.

You should search for the stagea dyno thread or go over to the forced induction section and have a look through the RB25 dyno thread, should he able to get a fair idea of what mod combinations give what results.

[Freak1]

thanks man I really appreciate the help I'll check this out and see what I can get for answer

500-600hp ?!?. It's achievable, but will set you back a fair bit of coin. That's fully built rb25 with serious bolt-ons or rb30 territory, probably set you back a minimum of $15k.

To give you an idea I sunk about $6k-$7k worth of bolt-ons into my stagea and I'm only just at the 400hp mark. My engine is still unopened but id expect to pay the same amount again to get it built.

You should search for the stagea dyno thread or go over to the forced induction section and have a look through the RB25 dyno thread, should he able to get a fair idea of what mod combinations give what results.

[Bronx]

cmon, 500-600hp should not be hard to achieve, but only with money. on stock, you should be able to hit just above 300hp atw.

but at the 500-600hp you need to basically start from scratch. entire rebuild on your motor, balancing, reco your head etc.

i am also willing to get to those numbers but only in a couple of years. i will be changing to a rb25 twin turbo setup though. i will be trying to run twin rb25 turbos just to see what i can get.

first things firs, im getting my turbo cores replaced with new ones and alloy/steel wheels but staying at stock specs, no highflow. then a nice new headgasket setup.

i already have FMI, power fc and full exhaust and currently trying to mod rb26 manifolds to fit t3 turbos and rb25 head.

but there will be a heap of money spent through out the next couple of months/years

[wolverine]

500hp (flywheel) is a whisker over 300rwkw.

Stock engine treated well with good tuning will cope for a reasonable period of time at this level.

Bigger injectors, bigger fuel pump, bigger turbo, 3" exhaust, FMIC + tuning and you are there.

[Zorro]

500hp fly is only about 250rwkw and you wont get 300kw with just those mods on a 25, but you will be in the 200's (still pretty darn quick)!

[Raysboostin]

first thing i would suggest if ur chasing 5-600hp is sell ur stagea and buy a 260rs. it will save u a fortune in the long run. ive spent well over the price of a 260rs just in mods alone and mines not even running

[QWK32]

500hp fly is only about 250rwkw and you wont get 300kw with just those mods on a 25, but you will be in the 200's (still pretty darn quick)!

There is no way 500fwhp is only 250rwkw, that would mean that the drive line is sucking up 120kw. If you go off the stock setup 206fwkw, averages out to be about 150rwkw, that's only 56kw in driveline losses. So off a 500hp/370kw engine I'd expect to see just over 300rwkw as wolverine said.

It also comes down to the mods you pick, most people don't want to sacrifice response for more power, and you can only really have one or the other on a 2.5l engine. If your willing to sacrifice response and throw on a larger turbo there is no reason why you can't push through the 300rwkw mark with relatively minimal mods. Getting to the 400rwkw mark is a whole other story.

Edited October 19, 2011 by QWK32

[wolverine]

500hp fly is only about 250rwkw and you wont get 300kw with just those mods on a 25, but you will be in the 200's (still pretty darn quick)!

Really?!

There is around 60kw drivetrain loss +/- a few (or about 80hp).

GT3076 is a 500hp turbo with supporting mods will make 300rwkw on 98ron.

500hp = 367kw

It seems to add up to me.

A quick scan of the RB25 dyno thread will show some actual results.

[wolverine]

Getting to the 400rwkw mark is a whole other story.

Spot on.

[Zorro]

Sorry (well not really) but im calling BS, there is no way in the known universe that your driveline is ~ 85% efficient! Just not possible, and an AWD system is less efficient & auto less again, you can easily experience a 40% loss of transmitable power! Its not a liner scale either, much like the efficiency of a turbo isnt one of linearity, the driveline is no different only not so dramatic. Stock is not 150kw at the wheels either! Yeah 300kw is possible from an un opened rb25, but not with the limited mods you posed earlier, with all supporting mods yeah, but it would not be cheap & it would be a time bomb! 260rs does it much easier, but still not cheap! Im building a 700hp+ fly rb30 at the moment, power is expensive, especially if you want it to be consistant and actually last any great length of time! My s1 stagea (yep non-neo so down alittle bit, but) with a full 3" HKS Hi Power exhaust with 100cell metal cat, HKS split dump, custom low mount mani, HKS pod, Blitz LM FMIC, HKS EVC4, HKS AFR and a few other mods @ 9psi made 153awkw & 555nm on 98ron! Most people grossly over estimate the power they can achieve & equally underestimate the cost! Ive spent twice what i paid for my car, on my engine so far and its not even in the car yet!

[Zorro]

There is no way 500fwhp is only 250rwkw, that would mean that the drive line is sucking up 120kw. If you go off the stock setup 206fwkw, averages out to be about 150rwkw, that's only 56kw in driveline losses. So off a 500hp/370kw engine I'd expect to see just over 300rwkw as wolverine said.

Mate, what I mean is, review your maths ^. 206kw at the crank is ~276hp, your stating 150awkw (or are you driving a rwd stagea?), which is ~201bhp, so theres a 75hp drop, stock (thats a >27% loss)! Now your nearly doubling the power to 500chp ~373kw. So lets just assume you have a magic gear box and its efficency is linear, the estimated power (using 27% loss) would be 272awkw or 365bhp; a 135hp/101kw loss! Thats still away off 300awkw & then account for additional losses; my estimate is looking pretty good!

*edited for grammer & a rounding error! lol

Edited October 19, 2011 by Zorro

[Bronx]

why would anyone upgrade/ downgrade to a rb26 from a neo motor? the neo motor is much more revised, plus shares heaps of parts with the rb26. besides the ecu being able to run twin airflows and o2 sensors. only thing you cant use from rb motors is the pistons which the r33 rb25 and the rb26 share. i still say the rb25 neo beats the rb26. also didnt the awd stageas get a rb26 equivalent block just not coded 05u since we have the awd pan and the neo block didnt fit the awd pan? so technically block, rods and cams are interchangeable/same. were just missing 100cc.

[wolverine]

Sorry (well not really) but im calling BS, there is no way in the known universe that your driveline is ~ 85% efficient! Just not possible, and an AWD system is less efficient & auto less again, you can easily experience a 40% loss of transmitable power! Its not a liner scale either, much like the efficiency of a turbo isnt one of linearity, the driveline is no different only not so dramatic. Stock is not 150kw at the wheels either! Yeah 300kw is possible from an un opened rb25, but not with the limited mods you posed earlier, with all supporting mods yeah, but it would not be cheap & it would be a time bomb! 260rs does it much easier, but still not cheap! Im building a 700hp+ fly rb30 at the moment, power is expensive, especially if you want it to be consistant and actually last any great length of time! My s1 stagea (yep non-neo so down alittle bit, but) with a full 3" HKS Hi Power exhaust with 100cell metal cat, HKS split dump, custom low mount mani, HKS pod, Blitz LM FMIC, HKS EVC4, HKS AFR and a few other mods @ 9psi made 153awkw & 555nm on 98ron! Most people grossly over estimate the power they can achieve & equally underestimate the cost! Ive spent twice what i paid for my car, on my engine so far and its not even in the car yet!

OP says 500hp then a 500hp turbo will get him there. Do you agree with that?? (ignore the slippery slope that is drivetrain losses and has been argued to death in forced induction since 2003)

GT3076 with bigger fuel pump, bigger injectors FMIC, 3" exhaust, FMIC, engine management + tuning is limited? In what way? What else is needed?

Going over 500hp with a stock engine generally becomes far less reliable so the costs start stacking up over this level and you won't get an argument from me on that. Tuning needs to be fatter and less aggressive to keep well away from det.

I have owned an R33 since 2001 and the Stagea for quite a while too. I strongly doubt you have spent more on them than I have over that time.

To get your 700hp is an expensive road to go down there is no question that engine internals, balancing and presumably a good look at the head is needed to get a reliable result. Then you open the door to drivetrain issues and the spending mounts up quickly.

On drivetrain losses, I believe you are making a mistake if you trying to use % loss. This has been argued back and forth in forced induction. Consistently the S1 GTS-t's make around 125-130rwkw in stock form (ignoring some outlying dyno variation). It shows around 60kw loss. AWD Nissans generally show around 10kw additional loss in AWD vs 2WD but there isn't as much in it as people think. Auto losses are definitely higher. Most cars show largely fixed loss (and if you don't believe me dyno a car before and after NOS and see what happens) but it makes sense that the harder you push the car the more will be lost to friction etc. IMO there is a fixed loss with a slight increasing % change at higher power levels.

Getting back to the OP's goal 500hp fly is easily achievable. If using a slushbox that needs to be looked at.

[Cowboy1600]

Mate, what I mean is, review your maths ^. 206kw at the crank is ~276hp, your stating 150awkw (or are you driving a rwd stagea?), which is ~201bhp, so theres a 75hp drop, stock (thats a >27% loss)! Now your nearly doubling the power to 500chp ~373kw. So lets just assume you have a magic gear box and its efficency is linear, the estimated power (using 27% loss) would be 272awkw or 365bhp; a 135hp/101kw loss! Thats still away off 300awkw & then account for additional losses; my estimate is looking pretty good!

*edited for grammer & a rounding error! lol

Drivetrain losses are fairly linear. And 25%-30% loss is about right (even though a percentage means it's not linear but I did say fairly). Modern cars are losing way less than that these days, even with autos behind them.

[260rsstagea]

this is the equation for my 260rs

step 3 RB28 + full tomei head + garrett gtx4294r @ 18psi + BP98 = 600rwhp + ~$50000 later

i cant see getting to those power levels on a neo being much less expensive than that. but llike someone said earlier with outright power comes lag i mine doesnt hit full boost til 6k but its a handful of fun when it does

just my 2 cents and experience in chasing power in a stagea

[QWK32]

Mate, what I mean is, review your maths ^. 206kw at the crank is ~276hp, your stating 150awkw (or are you driving a rwd stagea?), which is ~201bhp, so theres a 75hp drop, stock (thats a >27% loss)! Now your nearly doubling the power to 500chp ~373kw. So lets just assume you have a magic gear box and its efficency is linear, the estimated power (using 27% loss) would be 272awkw or 365bhp; a 135hp/101kw loss! Thats still away off 300awkw & then account for additional losses; my estimate is looking pretty good!

*edited for grammer & a rounding error! lol

i don't believe that you can attach a % to drivetrain losses, i believe it does slightly increase as the power does but nowhere near the levels your saying, that is a lot of power being lost as heat. i've been involved in one of these drivetrain losses arguments on here before and after 10 pages of comments everyone was still in disagreement lol

150awkw is about the average for a stock S2 NEO stagea, yes some people do see less though.

i have been running my 400rwhp setup for 3 years now, daily driven car, and its still going strong. my mods are only very minimal with an exhaust, intercooler, boost controller, ecu, injectors and the one mods that really counts, a GT3582 pumping out 1.5bar. i have sacrificed a bit of response and have easily made a lot of power up top. i am starting to get concerned about the auto but its held up really well considering the only mod i've done to it is a valve body upgrade.

Edited October 19, 2011 by QWK32

[wolverine]

after 10 pages of comments everyone was still in disagreement lol

Yep.