300Kw Unopened 25 Club...

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

Want a punchy cheap motor throw together a 25/30 with a 3076 .86

330 rwkw on pulp and boost from 2k flat

I drove this combo once as it was like a frikken v8

[Rolls]

rebuilding a motor is a waste of money, I've seen more "built" motors have internal problems than stockers with the nissan seal of approval, I trust the guy at nissan that built 3 motors a day 365 days a year with a million dollar quality assurance system than the guy who does 1 motor every 6 months with different parts every time who has the claim "no warranty on performance items" (eg every second workshop out there).

Edited November 11, 2013 by Rolls

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

lol

[LTHLRB]

Rolls: so umm... why don't all the top motorsport teams use factory built engines? And you do know that after market rods and pistons are better than stock yes? Also aftermarket rings and head gaskets and head and main studs and rod bolts are better than stock yes?

You're a troll aren't you?

(All the above is debatable. Apart from rolls trollness)

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

from memory rolls had a bad experience with a built 25 a couple of years back

[LTHLRB]

Ahh right. But you can put the best of the best. If its built by a monkey you'll get bananas. Build quality is the key.

[skylinecouple]

I'll agree with Rolls. Just too many failures out there. It seems there are not enough engine builders who really know their stuff. If they were held accountable for their work then perhaps things would change, but they aren't.

Having said that, I am sure there are people out there who take their freshly "built " engine and proceed to keep it on the limiter till it pops then blame the builder. If we could count the engine failures on these forums it would only be a fraction of what the true numbers would be.

[B-rice]

Rolls: so umm... why don't all the top motorsport teams use factory built engines? And you do know that after market rods and pistons are better than stock yes? Also aftermarket rings and head gaskets and head and main studs and rod bolts are better than stock yes?

You're a troll aren't you?

(All the above is debatable. Apart from rolls trollness)

People rebuild their own because the stockies are production line items which were made that way to speed up the manufacturing process and cost less meaning they will sell at a competitive price. They Nissan, unlike motorsport teams were not chasing Eleventy-hp out of the engine like motorsport teams want, different end users. If you want a engine capable of that have a look at the likes of the Z Tune or some of the cars built by Nismo, Midori or Omori. Maybe wrong but I havent heard a lot of them having engine failures.

IMO you cant really beat the factory seal of a Nissan built engine like said above, i can imagine if they built these engines with all the stuff people use for their rebuilts those engines would be tough as nails.

[ARTZ]

lol...the people who know how to build an engine properly, dont usually waste their time talking about it on the internet,,...they are too busy building racecars...

[LTHLRB]

People rebuild their own because the stockies are production line items which were made that way to speed up the manufacturing process and cost less meaning they will sell at a competitive price. They Nissan, unlike motorsport teams were not chasing Eleventy-hp out of the engine like motorsport teams want, different end users. If you want a engine capable of that have a look at the likes of the Z Tune or some of the cars built by Nismo, Midori or Omori. Maybe wrong but I havent heard a lot of them having engine failures.

IMO you cant really beat the factory seal of a Nissan built engine like said above, i can imagine if they built these engines with all the stuff people use for their rebuilts those engines would be tough as nails.

I know this. I personally build engines in house for skoda. It isn't really that complicated. Gotta have the right gaps clearances and torque specs and you're good as gold. Any filter spinner can build an engine as its just nuts n bolts. Building it correctly is a different story. Too many cowboys try to be these big workshop heros and put together rubbish and that's when you have engine failures. At the end of the day, regardless of how good its built, if its tuned poorly and maintenance isn't on the owners to do list it wont last.

As rob from rips says "head gasket down its just a pump head gasket up is where you make your power"

Also you never hear of motorsport teams crapping engines but you'll definitely see engines go out on the field. When cars are driven to the extreme it isnt a case of IF but moreso WHEN. Mark webber knows this all too well.

Edited November 11, 2013 by LTHLRB

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

If I was building my car again i'd totally just buy a shell with a blown motor and throw a RIPS 3.0 in it

[LTHLRB]

Can't go wrong with that. Much less stuffing around than going to and from workshop/machine shop and getting parts from here and there and most likely at the end of the day wishing you went crate motor.

[joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo]

def...

my mate is using a crater for his GS...

drop in, add massive supercharger - 1000hp

[LTHLRB]

Spend less time dealing with workshop lies and empty promises and more time tearing it up.

On another note. If the stock quality is so awesome why are so many rb 26s failing due to oil starvation? Or any engine for that matter? Not saying its poor quality. But saying a built engine with all the trimmings is/can be a lot better.

[zebra]

The thing with production engines you guys are missing is how many get thrown in the bin because they fail during testing.

Build 100 engines and there will be enough for 80 cars

Don't have that luxury with my pockets to build 5 motors and pick the best one

[AngryRB]

The last rebuild I did ( paid machine shops to do boring and rebuild head) turn't out to be a flop, the workshops stuffed up and I had piston slap, rings not bedding and I found metal shaving inside the assembled head. Finding a workshop that has employees with OCD as opposed to , yeah she'll be right attitude is the biggest issue.. I don't want apprentices learning and making mistakes with my $$$ spent

Edited November 11, 2013 by AngryRB

[LTHLRB]

Spot in angryrb. Seems to be less and less of the ocd high quality workshops getting around. Thats why I choose to do everything myself. Then if it fails nobody else is to blame but me then I can go one better next time round. And it seems logical to do my own work as I'm a mechanic by trade.

Edited November 11, 2013 by LTHLRB

[GTScotT]

The last rebuild I did ( paid machine shops to do boring and rebuild head) turn't out to be a flop, the workshops stuffed up and I had piston slap, rings not bedding and I found metal shaving inside the assembled head. Finding a workshop that has employees with OCD as opposed to , yeah she'll be right attitude is the biggest issue.. I don't want apprentices learning and making mistakes with my $$$ spent

You have to clean everything extremely thoroughly when you get it back from machinists man.. And check all measurements on anything that you had them do.

I have had a block bored in the past and discovered the PTB wasn't what I asked for. After numerous discussions of 'shell be right' and a bit of vocal encouragement they rectified the issue.

If you want a job done right you have to do it yourself, and anything you need someone else to do you should still do as much of it yourself as you can (such as the final measurements and QA process).

[LTHLRB]

I still don't understand why "professionals" can't do the job that they're payed for correctly. We as customers pay the 100% price yet we dont get 100% effort or quality. Same goes with "tuners" what irritates me is some workshops won't put as much effort or care in a tune if you built it elsewhere and braught it for a tune yet they will go to the moon and back when you have them build you an overpriced engine. Work should be done 100% regardless of where the car came from.

[Rolls]

Rolls: so umm... why don't all the top motorsport teams use factory built engines? And you do know that after market rods and pistons are better than stock yes? Also aftermarket rings and head gaskets and head and main studs and rod bolts are better than stock yes?

You're a troll aren't you?

(All the above is debatable. Apart from rolls trollness)

I'm talking about all the backyard builds and workshops that build them every 6 months for a customer, the proper race teams and race houses obviously have huge amounts of experience and have minimal issues.

You'd be silly to generalise every single rebuilt motor, which is why I didn't intend to do so. However when you are talking the typical backyard/once every year rebuild you see and hear about on these forums, you are better to chance it with a second hand nissan motor. I even made a poll some years ago and it turned up that people were having just as bad reliability issues with rebuilt (forged) motors vs stockers.

joeyjoejoejuniorshabadoo, on 12 Nov 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

If I was building my car again i'd totally just buy a shell with a blown motor and throw a RIPS 3.0 in it

and for the cost + shipping you'd be absolutely mad not to, everyone I know who has rebuilt a motor has spent within $1k of just getting a block shipped here from RIPS in nz. If I was planning on >300kw reliable I would do absolutely this.

LTHLRB, on 12 Nov 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I still don't understand why "professionals" can't do the job that they're payed for correctly. We as customers pay the 100% price yet we dont get 100% effort or quality. Same goes with "tuners" what irritates me is some workshops won't put as much effort or care in a tune if you built it elsewhere and braught it for a tune yet they will go to the moon and back when you have them build you an overpriced engine. Work should be done 100% regardless of where the car came from.

Because they aren't professionals, that is why. They are a bunch of guys in a shed that are barely any more experienced than your neighbour at rebuilding motors, sure they might tune and fix cars all day everyday, but they do an RB30 maybe once every 2 years and everytime with different parts, they probably don't even know which ones blew up or not. Experience and number of built motors is important, RIPS, racepace etc build so many motors they have crossed the threshold where you have enoguh experience and data to know what works and what doesnt.

It is easy to say it should be done 100%, but the reality is if you aren't experienced you are not capable of doing it 100%, building engines properly requires experience, simple as that.

from memory rolls had a bad experience with a built 25 a couple of years back

it wasn't even that bad, it was a second hand car that the previous owner had built, had piston slap and snapped a camshaft in 3 pieces after 10,000kms, didn't inspire trust in me at all so I pulled it out, sold the bottom end and put a NEO in. The owner I sold the motor two said it is still going strong, just with the piston slap rattle.

Edited November 12, 2013 by Rolls