80-early 90 Model Cars

[CircusMonkey]

bam

Edited April 30, 2006 by CircusMonkey

[SKY031]

www.google.com :uhh:

[JezR31]

for r31s theres R31 House its in japanese so you might need a translator - babelfish

they tune r31 skylines, engine transplants eg rb25det, rb26dett . Lots of pics.

but there isnt really alot of info

[Rezz]

www.google.com :uhh:

That ain't no way to treat one of our overseas SAU peeps...

Try and be a bit more helpful next time, yeah?

[SKY031]

:Oops: sorry rezz

But seriously, without a bit more information, it's a bit hard to "be a bit more helpful"... honestly, if you're after information on most types of vehicles, it can be found simply by typing the car details into a search engine.

CircusMonkey were you after something a bit more specific?

We you interested in Skylines or just any info on any Japanese car made between 1980-1990?

There were an awful lot of Japanese sportscars made within that 10 year span.

Pictures,tuning and general information on japanese models and specs.

Narrow it down a bit, and i promise i'll be more helpful

[DaiOni]

we probably have a fair bit of info lying around anyway (I know I have, and I know troy has ten times as much) - so if you have a specific car(s) in mind...

[CircusMonkey]

Hi

I was after information on cars like:

Toyota:Mr2,Celica,Supra

Nissan:Bluebird Sr turbo,Silvia,300zx

Mazda:Cosmo,323 gti

Honda:Prelude,Civic 1.6 Vtec (Sir)

I am looking for a project car of some sorts and are looking at diffrent options on cars which was importet in to Europe and can in the end get plates on in Norway.

What parts which still can be sourced and tips on what people have done before

regarding tuning and motor on diffrent cars.

I have tried goggling but not much come up on older jap models.

Thanks

[SKY031]

hmmmm well this makes it a bit more difficult.

There's a lot of information around in regards to the specific cars/motors you're interested in, but i have no idea of local emmisions laws or local modification laws.

The best information you can get will be from local people, who have similar cars.

Before buying a car, its important that you get all the information you need... it would be awful if you purchased a car , only to find out that you can't source parts for it locally.

Here are some links where you'll find some basic MR2 info, specs, etc.

MR2 links

Worldwide MR2 club listing

I tried the link for the Norwegian MR2 club, but it wasn't working. Perhaps there are some auto directories available to you which will have some more specific information about how you can contact your local MR2 club.

as for a Mazda Cosmo..... were they called something else in Australia? I've never even heard of them before.

:headspin:

[Evo_Lee]

Circusmonkey: dude, can you still be a little more specific.

You mention your after a project car...for drags, circuit, rally, something else. Your list of cars has no preference... FF, FR, 4WD, Midship, NA, Turbo, 4cyc, 6cyc...etc. Madza 323 gti?...I think you mean Famila GT-X or GT-R, there are information around. Unless your talking about the GT-A which they only built 200 of them.

Sorry Rezz (Justin), but it's true you can pretty much find information on all those cars on the web. Until Circusmonkey can narrow it down to specific cars or criteria for the car, there's not much point in talking and comparing pros and cons...unless you really want us to go through your whole list...yikes!!!

Sky031, try searching for JC 20B Twin Turbos, very nice car

Brian: you've always been the mountain of knowledge dude...I'm a jack of all trades and master of none

[DaiOni]

Originally Posted by DaiOni

Toyota - Mr2

In 86 toyota started the mr2 - I think there were NA and supercharged versions (there was an na version in oz, wasn't there...). In any case, the 'G Limited super charger' is the only version worth a look. They were a good car for their day - 15.39 0-400m (driver magazine, japan). Some people still love them, but they are very dated now - a bad combination of squareness and a wedge-like shape. Mid-mount engine is a novelty, but has its drawbacks (handling characteristics and ease of modification being a couple).

89 saw an updated version - totally different car, but with the same mid-mount, rwd principles. Styling was 'faux-ferrari' - which has aged a lot better than the previous shape. Again, the turbo version is the only one worth looking at. In 89 the GT was good for a mid 14 second 400m - but it got better over time, and the last versions (2000???, my memory is failing me...) were up there with the best (well into the 13s). Also, again, the engine placement still has its drawbacks. The early ones also needed some suspension revising - which didn't happen until later on (mid 90s?).

A good car, I personally wouldn't waste time looking at the first edition.

Celica

There are too many models between the 80s and early 90s to cover here.

That said, anything with a GT-FOUR (4wd + turbo) badge is worth a look (even the 1986 version could do 400m in 14.68). The 80s -> early 90s versions were 'rally-bred', thus, have good enough designs to be worthwhile prospects.

bottom line: GT-FOUR = worth a look, standard celica = crap

Supra

The 93- supras are awesome, but I'm going to assume that isn't what you are after.

There have been 3 generations of supra. The first (mk.I) looked like an 80s celica on steroids. That said, they take too much work to make something worthwhile. The second generation (mk.II) are a different matter - and can definitely be turned into a weapon. They were equipped with quite a few different engine varients, some good, some not so. It would take a supra expert to give all the details (not me) - that said, they generally got better with age. IIRC, the later 2.5 twin turbo was the best of the lot, followed by the 3L single turbo (which has some issues). There was also an early 2L turbo, and god knows what else. Thousands have been sold around the world - so there are plenty of websites that can give you far more information (and accuracy).

Bluebird Sr turbo

with the SR20det - not sure if that was available in the 80s (CA18det definitely was). In SR mode it's a case of great engine in a boring shell. Still, if you can put up with the aesthetics, they are a good little car. I'd stay away from the late 80s (or earlier) versions and stick with the 90s versions. In both sr and ca form, they are a 14 second car (over 400m) - but can easily be tuned. The later versions had more power, but also significantly more weight, so the performance didn't improve much. They use a version of nissans attesa 4wd system too.

A wonderful 'sleeper' car

Silvia

The 89-9? (93?) version came in sr and ca engine varients. It's a good car, but hasn't aged well. Comes in NA and turbo - make sure you get the turbo (badged 'Silvia K's). They are still fairly common in japan, which says a lot about their popularity. The SR, in particular, is still heavily supported by tuners. Their success as a 'sideways' car, has also helped their longevity. Light weight and decent power make them a great project car. First thing you would need to do is get rid of the seats - they are atrocious. Personally, I favour the silvia's 'brother', the 180sx - essentially the same thing, but with a sexier body.

You can't really go wrong woith an sr20det in a light car

300zx

I don't know anything about the pre-89 models. But I will say, they look like something out of a bad science fiction movie (hey, it was the 80s!).

The 89 version is blessed with a combination of high capacity (3L) and turbo - which is an equation for fun. That said, they are universally cursed by mechanics due to a cramped engine bay and some inherant issues. However, they can be made to go very hard (they went pretty hard straight out of the factory, too). I would say they are quite underestimated these days - probably because so many of them are looking tired and rough.

If you like the wedge styling (I don't) and can find a good one, then definitely worth a look. Not sure how great one would be as a project car.

323 gti

I also wonder if you are referring to the familia (??). The early 90s ones have issues, but are still fantastic little cars - often left in the shadow of the more popular nissan GTiR (pulsar/sunny). I don't know a lot about them - but the 4wd + 4cyl turbo equation is well known. It works with the familias, but there isn't a lot of tuning knowledge out there (from what I can see). I've heard that the gearboxes are fragile (which 4cyl + 4wd car doesn't seem to have that problem???), not sure of the severity of the issue though.

Bottom line: A weapon, probably worth a good look. But good luck finding one.

Cosmo

Cosmo is a car with a lot of history (60s- I believe). If you want one, get one from 90-, either with the twin turbo 13b(rew) (very similar to the FD rx7 engine), or the twin turbo 20b. The 20b is the holy grail of street rotary engines - combining low-down torque and a lot of power (rated as 280ps, but thought to be quite a bit more). They were relatively heavy though (being a luxury car) - a little under 1600kg, and were burdened with an auto transmission (all?). Can easily be turned into a very, very fast car (stock they were good for a low 14 second 400m).

Awesome, even if a little boring looking

Prelude

The late 80s prelude si 4ws (4 wheel steering - a bit of a 'so what?' addition) is a crap car - mid 16 second 400m, 145hp, suspension that falls apart. Forget it.

The early 90s version was much better (still not much of a performance car), and the vtec kids still love them - as such, there is a fair bit of info you can find on the net.

Civic 1.6 Vtec (Sir)

I drove this car's little brother, the vti, for a couple of weeks recently (130hp vs the sir's 160hp). I like the styling (still looks okay), they are lightweight, and the engines have the ability to take a hell of a lot of revs (and still make 'power'). No turbo, so they are never going to be a true rocketship (unless you add a turbo...) - but they are a good little car. You'd have to be a honda fan to make one a project car, but I'd certainly have one as a runaround car. Good, fun, shopping trolley.

It has to be said, that, for someone looking to import from japan, some of these cars would be very hard to source - and to source a decent one, even harder. 95% of cars from the 80s have either been crushed or imported to other countries already, and cars from the early 90s are also rapidly heading for that fate. Only the most popular cars will survive, and in limited numbers.

Other japanese cars from the late 80s, early 90s that are also worth considering - toyota soarer (3L turbo), FC Rx7 (13b turbo), Mitsubishi GTO (3L twin turbo), toyota starlet GT, and, of course, the first r32 GTRs.

[DaiOni]

Toyota - Mr2

In 86 toyota started the mr2 - I think there were NA and supercharged versions (there was an na version in oz, wasn't there...).  In any case, the 'G Limited super charger' is the only version worth a look.  They were a good car for their day - 15.39  0-400m (driver magazine, japan).  Some people still love them, but they are very dated now - a bad combination of squareness and a wedge-like shape.  Mid-mount engine is a novelty, but has its drawbacks (handling characteristics and ease of modification being a couple).

89 saw an updated version - totally different car, but with the same mid-mount, rwd principles.  Styling was 'faux-ferrari' - which has aged a lot better than the previous shape.  Again, the turbo version is the only one worth looking at.  In 89 the GT was good for a mid 14 second 400m - but it got better over time, and the last versions (2000???, my memory is failing me...) were up there with the best (well into the 13s).  Also, again, the engine placement still has its drawbacks.  The early ones also needed some suspension revising - which didn't happen until later on (mid 90s?).

A good car, I personally wouldn't waste time looking at the first edition.

Celica

There are too many models between the 80s and early 90s to cover here.

That said, anything with a GT-FOUR (4wd + turbo) badge is worth a look (even the 1986 version could do 400m in 14.68).  The 80s -> early 90s versions were 'rally-bred', thus, have good enough designs to be worthwhile prospects.

bottom line: GT-FOUR = worth a look, standard celica = crap

Supra

The 93- supras are awesome, but I'm going to assume that isn't what you are after.

There have been 3 generations of supra.  The first (mk.I) looked like an 80s celica on steroids.  That said, they take too much work to make something worthwhile.  The second generation (mk.II) are a different matter - and can definitely be turned into a weapon.  They were equipped with quite a few different engine varients, some good, some not so.  It would take a supra expert to give all the details (not me) - that said, they generally got better with age.  IIRC, the later 2.5 twin turbo was the best of the lot, followed by the 3L single turbo (which has some issues).  There was also an early 2L turbo, and god knows what else.  Thousands have been sold around the world - so there are plenty of websites that can give you far more information (and accuracy).

Bluebird Sr turbo

with the SR20det - not sure if that was available in the 80s (CA18det definitely was).  In SR mode it's a case of great engine in a boring shell.  Still, if you can put up with the aesthetics, they are a good little car.  I'd stay away from the late 80s (or earlier) versions and stick with the 90s versions.  In both sr and ca form, they are a 14 second car (over 400m) - but can easily be tuned.  The later versions had more power, but also significantly more weight, so the performance didn't improve much.  They use a version of nissans attesa 4wd system too.

A wonderful 'sleeper' car

Silvia

The 89-9? (93?) version came in sr and ca engine varients.  It's a good car, but hasn't aged well.  Comes in NA and turbo - make sure you get the turbo (badged 'Silvia K's).  They are still fairly common in japan, which says a lot about their popularity.  The SR, in particular, is still heavily supported by tuners.  Their success as a 'sideways' car, has also helped their longevity.  Light weight and decent power make them a great project car.  First thing you would need to do is get rid of the seats - they are atrocious.  Personally, I favour the silvia's 'brother', the 180sx - essentially the same thing, but with a sexier body.

You can't really go wrong woith an sr20det in a light car

300zx

I don't know anything about the pre-89 models.  But I will say, they look like something out of a bad science fiction movie (hey, it was the 80s!).

The 89 version is blessed with a combination of high capacity (3L) and turbo - which is an equation for fun.  That said, they are universally cursed by mechanics due to a cramped engine bay and some inherant issues.  However, they can be made to go very hard (they went pretty hard straight out of the factory, too).  I would say they are quite underestimated these days - probably because so many of them are looking tired and rough.

If you like the wedge styling (I don't) and can find a good one, then definitely worth a look.  Not sure how great one would be as a project car.

323 gti

I also wonder if you are referring to the familia (??).  The early 90s ones have issues, but are still fantastic little cars - often left in the shadow of the more popular nissan GTiR (pulsar/sunny).  I don't know a lot about them - but the 4wd + 4cyl turbo equation is well known.  It works with the familias, but there isn't a lot of tuning knowledge out there (from what I can see).  I've heard that the gearboxes are fragile (which 4cyl + 4wd car doesn't seem to have that problem???), not sure of the severity of the issue though.

Bottom line: A weapon, probably worth a good look.  But good luck finding one.

Cosmo

Cosmo is a car with a lot of history (60s- I believe).   If you want one, get one from 90-, either with the twin turbo 13b(rew)  (very similar to the FD rx7 engine), or the twin turbo 20b.  The 20b is the holy grail of street rotary engines - combining low-down torque and a lot of power (rated as 280ps, but thought to be quite a bit more).  They were relatively heavy though (being a luxury car) - a little under 1600kg, and were burdened with an auto transmission (all?).  Can easily be turned into a very, very fast car (stock they were good for a low 14 second 400m).

Awesome, even if a little boring looking

Prelude

The late 80s prelude si 4ws (4 wheel steering - a bit of a 'so what?' addition) is a crap car - mid 16 second 400m, 145hp, suspension that falls apart.  Forget it.

The early 90s version was much better (still not much of a performance car), and the vtec kids still love them - as such, there is a fair bit of info you can find on the net.

Civic 1.6 Vtec (Sir)

I drove this car's little brother, the vti, for a couple of weeks recently (130hp vs the sir's 160hp).  I like the styling (still looks okay), they are lightweight, and the engines have the ability to take a hell of a lot of revs (and still make 'power').  No turbo, so they are never going to be a true rocketship (unless you add a turbo...) - but they are a good little car.  You'd have to be a honda fan to make one a project car, but I'd certainly have one as a runaround car.  Good, fun, shopping trolley.

It has to be said, that, for someone looking to import from japan, some of these cars would be very hard to source - and to source a decent one, even harder.  95% of cars from the 80s have either been crushed or imported to other countries already, and cars from the early 90s are also rapidly heading for that fate.  Only the most popular cars will survive, and in limited numbers.  

Other japanese cars from the late 80s, early 90s that are also worth considering - toyota soarer (3L turbo), FC Rx7 (13b turbo), Mitsubishi GTO (3L twin turbo), toyota starlet GT, and, of course, the first r32 GTRs.

[topi]

"Toyota - Mr2......

but has its drawbacks (handling characteristics"

:sly:

The thing handles like a go-kart! (very well)

[Evo_Lee]

Topi, the AW11 handling sucked big time. Infact it wasn't till Ver3 (SW20) did they get it right, if you can afford it go a Ver5.

[DaiOni]

not many people love snap oversteer. MR cars are an interesting concept, but one that takes a lot of $$$ (from the factory, or aftermarket), to make them competitive.

great cars, undoubtedly (the later versions in particular) - but there are good reasons why you don't see them competing at the top level - even though they had a production run of over ten years.

[topi]

The AW11 was in ways superior to the SW20 in its handling. There was alot of hype about the snap oversteer and the tendancy to face the wrong way, but this was from people that cant drive. The MR layout gave it perfect balance and amazing grip, only the lead-footed would complain.

Admittedly the first generation of SW20 turbos were vicious but still, respect the car and it flies.

There is no mechanical difference between a Rev3-5 SW20, only cosmetic.

My dad owned the non turbo SW20 (92) and it lost many powerful and even 4WD sports cars round the twisties. Whilst waiting for his 95 Turbo to arrive from Japan, he was borrowing an AW11 for a few months. The handling was close to that of a Caterham, although it was slightly underpowered in its stock form.

The SW20 Turbo he now owns (Rev3) is a pure beast, and if anything, slightly over powered for such a small car.

The only way an MR2, especially AW11, can be said to handle badly is if the person behind the wheel is scared to push it harder. Or, the car is faulty

The MR layout (NSX etc) may not be popular in production, but thats because it is impractical, and hard to drive well. The benefits are obvious though, and the MR layout is used widely in motorsport.

Although id rather work on a FR car!

[Rezz]

MR cars are an interesting concept...

A concept that hasn't been perfected yet? I know we're talking about the SW20 and AW11, cheap MR cars, but it sounded like you're being a little critical of the chassis layout itself. Are you of the same line of thinking with the oh-so-inferior (on paper) RR layout? I mean, we all know how Porsche suck... ;)

There was alot of hype about the snap oversteer and the tendancy to face the wrong way, but this was from people that cant drive. The MR layout gave it perfect balance and amazing grip, only the lead-footed would complain.

Agreed. I drove a 300kw SW20 once, midcorner feathering the throttle on/off boost, THAT was scary... but a mildy modded Turbo version would be quite sweet IMO.

[DaiOni]

A concept that hasn't been perfected yet? .

no, if you keep reading that sentence... "but one that takes a lot of $$$ (from the factory, or aftermarket), to make them competitive." I can think of plenty of cars that have got it right, just not from such a low price bracket. Interestingly, most would be classified as 'hard to drive' - but when you get into that sort of car (ie: supercar), there are a lot of factors that come into play.

There was alot of hype about the snap oversteer and the tendancy to face the wrong way, but this was from people that cant drive.

I think that sums it up completely. Unfortunately, a staggering percentage of the population 'can't drive', and we shouldn't assume otherwise

[topi]

I think that sums it up completely. Unfortunately, a staggering percentage of the population 'can't drive', and we shouldn't assume otherwise

Hehe, point taken.

[Evo_Lee]

The point both Brian and myself are voicing in no way says the MR2 is bad just the handling needs attention. A midship is suppose to be a well balanced car but if you look at the factory setup on this car in it's early days it seriously sucked and yet Toyota expected everyone to be a race driver. Seriously when this car was released the only people who could afford the car probably drove BMWs and wanted a cheaper sports car to pull chicks. I can also assure you they didn't sell many in it's early days because of this snap oversteer feared by the general public. As the car became cheaper that's when guys like us were able to seriously look at the car and set it up properly. But the MR2 can be forgiven, you don't expect Toyota to get it right the first time.

Follow through with me, Topi you already pointed them out so you should actually know.

AW11 nice responsive engine but lack of driver feedback and control. Get the suspension setup properly, wider tires and the car is a little go-kart.

SW20 Ver1, small 14" wheels and small 205 tires at the rear, how much grip are you gonna get. Standard suspension and weak brakes didn't help either. Engine didn't feel as responsive as the S/C AW11 and that dreaded engine oil problem.

Ver2, didn't take long and Ver2 was released with significant changes, ABS std, front wheels now 15" 195/55R15 & rear wheels 15" 225/50R15, enlarged brake rotor, sits 5mm lowered, improve transmission for smoother gear change, fixed engine oil problems, revised suspension, changed camber to decrease body roll by extending the rear lower arm by 100mm, harder bushes and strengthen stabilizers.

Ver3, larger turbo, 3SGTE tweaked for more power (225ps->245ps) and response, improved transmission as ver2 was still difficult, aluminum oil pan, strengthen clutch and gearbox, increased diameter of clutch slave cylinder, BILSTEIN shocks, revsied suspension mounts for better stability of the rear during sliding/drifting, sports ABS, lighter body.

Ver4, were cosmetic changes as they finally got pretty much everything right in Ver3.

Ver5, as I mentioned Ver3 pretty much the minimum you would buy as the earlier ones required too much attention. Ver5 also mainly cosmetics with adjustable rear spoiler and ABS revised from 3ch to 4ch.

How do I know all this, I used to be a fan when I was a young lad. Have drive a fair few in my time. Never an owner because I couldn't afford one when I was younger and probably won't buy one now...unfortunately a 2seater is not high on my priorities these days.

Agree lovely car but Toyota should have placed a caution sticker...wanna know how many crashed early MR2s are sitting at wreakers here in Japan.

[topi]

I thought the AW11 was very responsive really, I suppose everyone has their different styles etc.

I saw a translated report from an old Japanese car magazine, when the first SW20 turbo came out. It was said to be 'undrivable', too much power and not enough grip/braking