SAFC = better fuel consumption??

[08Elf]

At the moment I get 400-450km per tank from my R32 GTS-T and that's running normal petrol (Mum filled the car up for me put the wrong one in - ah well). I will be putting Optimax in the car after this tank runs out and also adding some octane boost.

I wanted to know if I install a SAFC, either 'Greddy e-manage' or 'Apexi SAFC' and have it tuned so the car runs leaner, but not lean enough to cause detonation.

Will I get better fuel economy by doing this?

Also keep in mind that I use it as a daily driver and don't race around it in.

[Abo Bob]

Jeez man, I should be so lucky. I'm wooting all the way down the street (sideways of course) if I get 300 these days.

[Zahos]

Potentially yes, in reality NO

Once you benefit from the extra kw from a better fuel curve, your right foot will suddenly get a lil heavier...

Most tuners only go for a leaner fuel curve at WOT, and don't bother tuning at low throttle. So in terms of better fuel economy it kinda cancels itself out b/c it only happens at WOT....

If you ask your tuner to tune it at low and High throttle positions, you will potentially see some better fuel economy for everyday driving, but I would say the difference would be close to negligible.

[dojobi]

I used to get 400km avg out of my R33 before the SAFC, and after I was getting 500km per tank.

[Sydneykid]

Hi Guys, the later versions of the SAFC have separate WOT and partial throttle tuning. By the time you tune these 2 ranges and add them to the standard ECU closed loop running, you have a pretty good recipe for the best fuel economy your right foot will allow. After tuning the SAFC, the average change in A/F ratios at WOT is between 10% and 20% leaner, the partial throttle is between 5% and 10%. Since the improvement in A/F ratios also results in more power (typically 10%), the theory is if you drive at the same speed and accelerate at the same rate as you did before the tune you could end up with between 10% and 30% fuel economy improvement. So MICR33 is doing pretty well to get a 25% improvement (from 400 to 500 k's).

So it is worthwhile telling your tuner that you want him to tune the SAFC at both WOT and partial throttle openings, you will get the extra tuning costs back pretty quick.

Hope that helps

[dojobi]

Yeah, I was pretty happy with the results

My AFRs were shocking before the tune, so that would explain why my economy improved so much.

[08Elf]

Hope that help, hope that help....

That was great, that's exactly why I like using forums to get gold information like that, thanks heaps SydneyKid. I am in Canberra so I just have to find someone who is able to do this for me and not charge me heaps of $$$

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MICR33 -

Just so I know what mods do you have?

what boost level?

What controller are you using?

[dojobi]

I don't have the mods on anymore as I'm selling the car, but this is what I had:

Full 3.5" exhaust with a HPC coated dump front/combo pipe (this has a separate wastegate pipe that rejoins further down the exhaust).

SAFC tuned by Hills Motorsport

HKS Type S FMIC

Stock turbo, 1 bar by a bleed valve.

HKS exhuast cam gear set 2 degrees retarded

Fully boxed Trust Airinx pod filter with a cold air feed.

NB I do a fair bit of highway driving, so that would have given me higher actual values than most people can expect. The 25% improvement in fuel consumption from whatever you get now, though, should be about right.

BTW I'll be selling the cam gear, front/dump combo pipe, pod filter and box in the near future if you want them. I haven't worked out how much I want for them all though.

[rd-runr]

O8Elf - try changing your fuel to BP Ultimate!

Good reasons why if you search! Give it a go and see what you think! I use to use Opticrap but since switching to Ultimate Im much happier with the car!

[Sydneykid]

O8Elf - try changing your fuel to BP Ultimate!

Good reasons why if you search!  Give it a go and see what you think!  I use to use Opticrap but since switching to Ultimate Im much happier with the car!

Since the Ultimate you are using comes from the Shell Refinery at Clyde, same as Optimax, I am surpised. If you want to check this, go the the BP web site (www.bp.com.au) it tells you where your fuel is made and who makes it.

Save you the trouble here is the quote....

A particular feature of the Australian oil industry is the practice of refinery exchange, in which refining companies exchange products in various locations to minimise distribution costs. For example, BP supplies other companies in Perth and Brisbane and in return is supplied with product in Melbourne, Sydney and Tasmania.

[krawler]

Possibly a little off topic ...

How different is SAFC and PFC in terms of fuel economy?

I believe PFC is open loop, yes? So assuming you are comparing freeway driving, I'm guessing the PFC would end up worse off (and thats assuming same throttle position on the highway, but when its the M1 on a saturday night, sif that happens)

Our fuel economy went very far down when we got the PFC + AVCR because the tune was so rich to stop pinging (still ended up losing a fair bit of timing). Now with a cooler, the timing is back in and the tune is good and we've gone back to pretty much standard fuel economy for us, which is about 7.5k/litre combo driving.

[krawler]

Since the Ultimate you are using comes from the Shell Refinery at Clyde, same as Optimax, I am surpised. If you want to check this, go the the BP web site (www.bp.com.au) it tells you where your fuel is made and who makes it.

Hmm, FWIW ... We run Optimax religiously, but a while back we trialed Ultimate after reccomendations from a gtir owning mate of ours. It didnt idle properly and had a miss around 2500rpm. I dont know if we simply got a bad batch or two, or wether the remenants of the Optimax mixing with the Ultimate made a Funky Fuel, but we've now gone back to Optimax and havent had a drama.

Just a thought *shrug*

[rs73]

Sydneykid, u talking about the latest SAFC-II? And is WOT = Wide Open Throttle?

[nitemare5]

wot = wide open throttle yes

[Sydneykid]

Possibly a little off topic ...

 

How different is SAFC and PFC in terms of fuel economy?

I believe PFC is open loop, yes? So assuming you are comparing freeway driving, I'm guessing the PFC would end up worse off (and thats assuming same throttle position on the highway, but when its the M1 on a saturday night, sif that happens).

PFC runs closed loop, so the economy depends on the tuning and the right foot.

[JimX]

"WOT is wide open throttle." hehe, that's like saying How Long is a Chinaman

Anyway, about S-AFC etc. I've noticed that upgrading my ECU gets me both more power and better economy, using similar driving habits. I went from 150rwkw and 15-16L/100km to 166rwkw and 13-14L/100km with a tuned S-AFC (0.8bar for both these), to 14-15L/100km and 215rwkw when retuned to 1 bar of boost and cooler upgrade, to my current ~215rwkw and 13-14L/100km with PowerFC and 0.8 bar of boost. The only thing now is my highway economy is slightly worse than it used to be, but that's because I haven't had it tuned yet. I know you should tune it as soon as possible after installing it, but my knock levels are so low and the car is running so great that I've put it off until I can afford an AFM upgrade (it's now maxing out at 0.9 bar, and it never maxed out even at 1 bar before with the stock ECU).

[rd-runr]

Since the Ultimate you are using comes from the Shell Refinery at Clyde, same as Optimax, I am surpised.  If you want to check this, go the the BP web site (www.bp.com.au) it tells you where your fuel is made and who makes it.

Save you the trouble here is the quote....

Well call me crazy, but I did make an unbiased comparison and noticed smoother gear shifting with the auto and better economy with the same conditions.