Oil Pump Upgrade Dilemma

[God_Z_illa]

Hey everyone,

I'm looking for some advice with a dilemma I'm having on choosing which direction I should go with upgrading my RB25DET's oil pump.

The current one is an N1 with a billet gear, and I wouldn't know whether the backing plate is factory or aftermarket as I bought the engine from the previous owner who had it built.

My first reason comes down to my own fear and uncertainty created from all of the horror stories I've heard about N1 pump failures although I know half of them are due to dodgy installation, and my second reason is that I feel that the capable power figure for my current fuel and turbo setup would be right at the edge of what the N1 can safely handle as moving forward I'd like to have the headroom to aim for bigger power safety with the piece of mind.

Originally I was considering going with a Nitto pump until realising that the whole engine would need to be disassembled as the crank snout would require machining to suit an upgraded crank collar to pair with the pump . Which obviously isn't a viable option as it's already a brand new built engine that had just only finished being run in for 1000km before I bought it.

However I've come across a examples of RB's running external wet sump oil pump setups instead which has sparked my interest in them, such as this kit from Ross Performance
https://golebysparts.au/products/nissan-rb-ross-lh-mounting-single-stage-external-oil-pump-kit-race-series-damper-306500-104?variant=15660827246701 

as I've been thinking about if this alternative could be worth it rather than the expense and time that would be involved with the original idea?

I'd love to hear any opinions/suggestions yous may have to offer,

cheers.

[Duncan]

Just run oil pressure to your ECU and shut down the motor if you lose pressure. Most N1 pumps in the world don't fail, the biggest risk factor seems to be bouncing off the rev limiter like a foo.

Of course if you are thinking big big power (you didn't really give a figure above) then you should be changing to a different oil pump setup as the fundamental design from nissan was not great for quadrupling factory power....external wet pump is better a bit of a half pregnant option, dry sump is the way to keep a big $$ engine safe

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

15 hours ago, God_Z_illa said:

already a brand new built engine that had just only finished being run in for 1000km before I bought it.

You would assume a crank collar would have been fitted during the build process.

[God_Z_illa]

Sorry for the late responses.

I left that out by mistake Duncan, my bad mate. The power I want to make for now is between 600 - 650hp ish (it hasn't received a power tune post run in) and my ultimate goal I'd like to eventually achieve would be 750 - 800hp if safely possible, which is why I'd like some headroom with the pump.

I have looked into dry sump kits as well but honestly speaking that wouldn't be an option within my means, unless you could recommend a cost effective way to piece one together?

I also know an external wet sump system isn't a full measure compared to dry sump, but how would one stack up against other aftermarket internal oil pumps? Between the two which would you suggest, and what would be the pros and cons of each?

Thanks.

[God_Z_illa]

On 02/03/2023 at 11:24 AM, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

You would assume a crank collar would have been fitted during the build process.

I'd like to, but I spoke to the original owner the other day to ask him and he wasn't sure at all but said he would ask the engine builder, which is making it less likely.

[Predator1]

On 09/03/2023 at 10:44 PM, God_Z_illa said:

Sorry for the late responses.

I left that out by mistake Duncan, my bad mate. The power I want to make for now is between 600 - 650hp ish (it hasn't received a power tune post run in) and my ultimate goal I'd like to eventually achieve would be 750 - 800hp if safely possible, which is why I'd like some headroom with the pump.

I have looked into dry sump kits as well but honestly speaking that wouldn't be an option within my means, unless you could recommend a cost effective way to piece one together?

I also know an external wet sump system isn't a full measure compared to dry sump, but how would one stack up against other aftermarket internal oil pumps? Between the two which would you suggest, and what would be the pros and cons of each?

Thanks.

Regardless of what oiling system you use, the key is to setup limits and cuts based on oil pressure. I have tonnes of cuts and limits on mine. Duncan's advise is spot on. You dont need dry sump for 800hp. If you are really paranoid, then add Accusump or some sort of oil accumulator to the mix.

[Duncan]

I know some people have gone the external pump with a wet sumo route, but I use nitto internal pump (which seems to be very similar to the Tomei pump). A external pump requires a crank mandrel to drive it, mounting and an extra belt to throw or misalign, I don't see that is safer with a wet sump

[God_Z_illa]

On 15/03/2023 at 5:26 AM, Duncan said:

I know some people have gone the external pump with a wet sumo route, but I use nitto internal pump (which seems to be very similar to the Tomei pump). A external pump requires a crank mandrel to drive it, mounting and an extra belt to throw or misalign, I don't see that is safer with a wet sump

Thankyou both Predator1 and Duncan for advising me and my apologies again for yet another late response, I don't mean to make a habit of it.

I knew that it was probably a long shot but due to the high chances that an aftermarket crank collar wasn't fitted when the engine was built, I couldn't help hoping that a external wet sump system might be the workaround for the engagement issues that the stock collar has with conventional pumps, as well as a solution wouldn't require engine disassembly. 

I'm still quite the long way off from my project running and driving as the engine has to go in out a fair amount of times for test fitting and fab work which could take a good while, but once I get closer to that stage when I'm more able too, I'll cop it on the chin and get a collar fitted and a Nitto pump like originally planned.