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Anyone seen this coilover before?

kevboost7
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Duncan Grand Master

Duncan

Posted
Posted

Yeah I used to run a set of those on the race car before I moved to Bilstein/Eibach springs.

I think they were pretty common out of Japan back in the day. The springs probably don't have markings but they are likely to be firmer than you might want, the shocks are probably old and crap by now, and I it looks like the strut tops have pillow ball / ball joints not bushes which are very likely to make knocking noises as they age.

I saw you had another thread as well. You have the option to recondition the Ohlins but the most likely source of a noise is the strut tops which are not always included in new shocks. 

kevboost7 Community Regular

kevboost7

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Ah intersting, i didn't think that these were common. 

When you say strut top, do you mean the area where the strut connects to the strut tower in the engine bay?

 

And what do you mean "recondition" the ohlins? Is there an affordable way to get the car to ride better? 

The Bogan Grand Master

The Bogan

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, kevboost7 said:

Also, are these considered "coil-overs"?

 

Coil over damper, so yes

90% of OEM suspension is "coil over", just no adjustments in them, typically 

GTSBoy Grand Master

GTSBoy

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, kevboost7 said:

Are you guys running pillow ball mount or rubber bushing mount?

Almost every street car will have rubber in the strut top. Spherical joints can be a bit too harsh to live with up there.

There is an important point to consider though. Most (Skyline) people call these "strut tops", because they call their suspension units "struts". They are not in fact "struts", in the sense that "struts" refers to MacPherson struts and these are not them. Mac struts carry ALL the suspension loads into the top of the tower. Those being uppy downy bump loads and also lateral and longitudinal loads, because the strut is the upper suspension "arm".

On a Skyline, these are just spring and damper units. Just the spring and damper. They are not a structural part of the suspension. All the lateral and longitudinal loads are carried by the upper and lower arms. The suspension unit just carries the uppy downy loads.

A Mac strut car actually has to have some sort of bearing in the top anyway, to handle the twisty steering motion. But the rest of it is a massive construction designed to carry all those loads. Skyline "strut tops" are simple and small by comparison.

So, where a spherical upper would be VERY harsh on a mac strut car.....it's not quite so bad on a Skyline. I still wouldn't do it though, for a streeter. I have a smattering of sphericals in my suspension and they transmit a million times more noise than poly bushes do.

  • Like 1
Duncan Grand Master

Duncan

Posted
Posted

I think all the questions got answered except the recondition bit

Shocks tend to fail by:

leaking past seals

loosing pressure / going wallowy

siezing

As you're in the US you would surely be able to find the Ohlins rep in country who can organise to rebuild them to original spec; which was probably pretty good. They are a top 25% quality damper, not cheap crap

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kevboost7 Community Regular

kevboost7

Posted
  • Author
Posted
9 hours ago, GTSBoy said:

Almost every street car will have rubber in the strut top. Spherical joints can be a bit too harsh to live with up there.

There is an important point to consider though. Most (Skyline) people call these "strut tops", because they call their suspension units "struts". They are not in fact "struts", in the sense that "struts" refers to MacPherson struts and these are not them. Mac struts carry ALL the suspension loads into the top of the tower. Those being uppy downy bump loads and also lateral and longitudinal loads, because the strut is the upper suspension "arm".

On a Skyline, these are just spring and damper units. Just the spring and damper. They are not a structural part of the suspension. All the lateral and longitudinal loads are carried by the upper and lower arms. The suspension unit just carries the uppy downy loads.

A Mac strut car actually has to have some sort of bearing in the top anyway, to handle the twisty steering motion. But the rest of it is a massive construction designed to carry all those loads. Skyline "strut tops" are simple and small by comparison.

So, where a spherical upper would be VERY harsh on a mac strut car.....it's not quite so bad on a Skyline. I still wouldn't do it though, for a streeter. I have a smattering of sphericals in my suspension and they transmit a million times more noise than poly bushes do.

thanks for this explanation, im learning so much about this car. Just when i feel like i figured something out, theres a another part on the car that i need to upgrade lol 

kevboost7 Community Regular

kevboost7

Posted
  • Author
Posted
9 hours ago, Duncan said:

I think all the questions got answered except the recondition bit

Shocks tend to fail by:

leaking past seals

loosing pressure / going wallowy

siezing

As you're in the US you would surely be able to find the Ohlins rep in country who can organise to rebuild them to original spec; which was probably pretty good. They are a top 25% quality damper, not cheap crap

interesting, i never thought about re-furbishing the old ones. Would i have to purchase new springs? 

 

and do you have your car lowered? 

Duncan Grand Master

Duncan

Posted
Posted

Springs can sag over time but that is less likely to be a problem, When you say you don't like the current suspension because it is hard and noisy over bumps that suggests the springs are either OK or potentially too firm. The shocks are more likely to give you a firm feel (where you go into a bump or depression and it feels like you have no suspension at all), particularly if one or more is seized up

The Bilsteins I have in the Stagea are custom valved to be pretty firm because I was towing heaving loads (2500kg) at the time, and they have whiteline springs to match. They have been on there for about 200,000klm and have been rebuilt by Bilstein in between, they would probably be due again some time. The custom setup I have is not readily available any more as the guy who was doing it has moved on. I run the same shock with different valving in the rally/race car which I also find excellent (relatively soft due to the roads we rally on)

You need to start with what you want from the car and then get something to suit that. I think it might have been another thread where you were recommended to talk to MCA or shockworks; I've never dealt with either except one race on MCA golds, but both have an excellent reputation for knowing what they are talking about rather than just selling x thousand units from china.

  • 2 weeks later...
kevboost7 Community Regular

kevboost7

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Does the clearance i have make a difference? I'm trying to logically understand it, but if the tire dosen't have that much room to travel up and down, the shocks/springs has to be stiff to prevent it from going through the fender dosent it? If i want a softer ride, does it mean i go up higher? 

or is it possible to keep the car lowered but have it ride good. 

 

gtr3.thumb.jpg.9292fd3b5d4d6b53ffcfd6f0a6572acc.jpg280433746_700422637842604_2078143199084616384_n.thumb.jpg.a48ea3bf4757455522db873aee6dc852.jpgGTR6.thumb.jpg.4af92cdb4b4972983f3a7daaaa9e34b3.jpg

Duncan Grand Master

Duncan

Posted
Posted

That depends mostly on the width and offset of your wheels and tyres, and a little on your camber.

If you want to know if you can lower your car with the current wheel/tyre combo, jack up a corner, take the shock out and use a second jack under the wheel to push it up to the top of it's travel. If it doesn't hit the guard in that range of travel you can lower it without wheel contact.

Same at the front, except you should repeat the test at full left and full right lock as well.

If it is going to touch on the way past you can

1. not lower it

2. roll the guards which folds back the lip on the inside of the guard for another 1 cm of clearance. This can cause the pain to crack inside the guard and at the fold, and I wonder if yours has already been done due to paint chips in the second pic

3. flare the guards, similar process as 2 but you continue pushing until the guards are pushed out a little. Done carefully this can be hard to notice, but done badly it will look totally crap

4. shorter the top upper suspension arm. This will give you mode camber at all times which might cause tyre wear depending on your current settings, but as camber increases as the wheel goes up it also helps the wheel tuck into the guard on the way

5. buy better fitting wheels/tyre combo

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