S1 rb25/s14 starting problem

[25zenki]

Hello all, currently finishing up a rb25 swap into my s14. Having issues with starting, car has spark (confirmed by pulling a plug and watching it spark), has fuel(confirmed by checking pulse/voltage at injectors all spark plugs are soaked in fuel). Car cranks over and pops into the exhaust with a heavy fuel smell but no attempt to start or run, I have torn the timing cover off and triple confirmed timing, turned the CAS in multiple spots both directions, attempted to start with coolant temp and maf unplugged, checked my fuel lines and made sure they weren’t backwards, checked voltage at cas/injectors/coilpacks, made sure all the grounds in the harness are connected and added a few grounding straps (1 from chassis to block, 1 from chassis to head, and 1 from chassis to igniter chip) I am getting stumped here. As a last ditch effort I made a full grounding harness tonight that’s going to run from the battery and add an extra ground from the battery onto the coil pack harness/igniter chip/ intake manifold/ Wiring specialties harness ground/ and alternator. I’m hoping maybe the grounding harness will fix it here but posting here to see if anyone has any other ideas on what else I can check. My fuel pressure is unknown right gauge will be here tomorrow. 

[25zenki]

Car is on factory injectors/z32 maf/ q45 throttle body/ z32 ecu with nistune 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

When you crank your car, and hit it with a timing light, can you see a steady crank timing?

[25zenki]

1 hour ago, Dose Pipe Sutututu said:

When you crank your car, and hit it with a timing light, can you see a steady crank timing?

I’m here solo don’t have any hands to help so haven’t hit it with a timing light 

[Dose Pipe Sutututu]

try use your phone to record it?

might be an issue with the shutter speed / refresh vs. the timing light, but worth a shot

[MBS206]

4 hours ago, 25zenki said:

I’m here solo don’t have any hands to help so haven’t hit it with a timing light 

Make up a wire you can energize the starter solenoid from when in the engine bay.

Then energize it with the key in the "On" position, and use your timing light.

[MBS206]

Also, have you confirmed the harmonic balancers timing mark is correct?

Put it to TDC and then check the cylinder is actually at TDC. The balancer looks old as, and may have started to let go.

 

How old are the plugs in it?

What spark plugs are in it, and what gap are they at?

[25zenki]

2 hours ago, MBS206 said:

Also, have you confirmed the harmonic balancers timing mark is correct?

Put it to TDC and then check the cylinder is actually at TDC. The balancer looks old as, and may have started to let go.

 

How old are the plugs in it?

What spark plugs are in it, and what gap are they at?

I confirmed cylinder is TDC. harmonic balanced is old but rubber looks good. Night before last I took the balancer off and used the crank mark to confirm timing. Plugs are brand new bkr6e at 1.1ish 

[MBS206]

If you've got spark, and you've got fuel, it needs once last thing to go vroom...

Have you compression checked the motor?

[25zenki]

1 hour ago, MBS206 said:

If you've got spark, and you've got fuel, it needs once last thing to go vroom...

Have you compression checked the motor?

140-150 across the board. At this point hoping the grounding harness fixes it. My grounds are all tied to the chassis and none to the battery. For SR and KA that’s never been a problem for me but had a few other guys here and Reddit who told me RB really like a very solid ground setup tied to the battery so going to try that next, I’m stumped if that doesn’t do it. Never had a car have spark and fuel and not fire off before. Only thing I can think is the spark is intermittent/weak because of grounds nothing else really makes sense at this point 

[Murray_Calavera]

20 hours ago, 25zenki said:

z32 ecu with nistune 

Are you 100% sure this isn't tune related?

[25zenki]

2 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

Are you 100% sure this isn't tune related?

Honestly no not at all, but it’s a very basic tune, it’s stock injectors q45 tps and z32 maf. Other than that it’s a completely stock base map. The file is from nistune and from my understanding if it was tune related I would be able to unplug maf and tps and it would still start even if it was a really shitty start. I have tried starting it with coolant temp, maf, and tps unplugged none of those 3 togethor or individually changes anything 

[25zenki]

2 hours ago, Murray_Calavera said:

Are you 100% sure this isn't tune related?

Maf is a question mark but TPS  I have set at 0.47, the fact that I’m getting proper voltage range out of it with the key on leads me to believe it’s functioning properly. I’m getting proper voltages on basically everything. I still need to look up voltage ranges for z32 maf and test that 

[MBS206]

Have you tried to start it with AFM unplugged? From memory with TPS closed and AFM unplugged an RB25 will start and idle (won't rev).

This will tell you it's either AFM, AFM wiring, or tune.

You also said Z32 ECU with Nistune? 

Have you made all the necessary changes like the change of the ABS input on the pin the Z32 uses for TPS closed?

Was the Z32 specifically setup for RB25 S1 or S2 from R33? There are differences between that need mods done on Z32 ECU.

What's the part number on your Z32 ECU?

[25zenki]

14 hours ago, MBS206 said:

Have you tried to start it with AFM unplugged? From memory with TPS closed and AFM unplugged an RB25 will start and idle (won't rev).

This will tell you it's either AFM, AFM wiring, or tune.

You also said Z32 ECU with Nistune? 

Have you made all the necessary changes like the change of the ABS input on the pin the Z32 uses for TPS closed?

Was the Z32 specifically setup for RB25 S1 or S2 from R33? There are differences between that need mods done on Z32 ECU.

What's the part number on your Z32 ECU?

This car has run before on this z32 ecu can get the part number for you, I have tried with no AFM it didn’t change anything, I compression tested today 140-150 across all 6 cylinders, also set fuel pressure to 43psi. The only weird thing was cylinder 1 plug was black and fouled other 5 cylinders were just wet with fuel. Spun cas by hand and confirmed injectors are clicking 

[MBS206]

1 hour ago, 25zenki said:

This car has run before on this z32 ecu can get the part number for you, I have tried with no AFM it didn’t change anything, I compression tested today 140-150 across all 6 cylinders, also set fuel pressure to 43psi. The only weird thing was cylinder 1 plug was black and fouled other 5 cylinders were just wet with fuel. Spun cas by hand and confirmed injectors are clicking 

Did you only check spark on cylinder 1?

Give all cylinders a check for spark.

So this swap you've done, the car had an RB25 in it before with this Z32, and you've just dropped another RB25 into it?

[blind_elk]

Are you sure the plugs are firing in the correct sequence at the correct time?

Black or fuel soaked spark plugs are unlikely to want to fire properly. Fit a set of cheap coppers (like BCPR6ES) until you diagnose the problem.

Are you sure the injectors are working properly, ie not flooding the cylinder?

[25zenki]

1 hour ago, MBS206 said:

Did you only check spark on cylinder 1?

Give all cylinders a check for spark.

So this swap you've done, the car had an RB25 in it before with this Z32, and you've just dropped another RB25 into it?

I checked spark on all cylinders and they all visually have spark with the plug pulled and grounded, but plug 1 is the only one that fouled. This was a running swap that blew up and was rebuilt by a machine shop, put a new wiring specialties harness and did all gaskets, studs, and bolts while it was out.  compression is 135-150 across all cylinders. Aside from that from my understanding with the z32 ecu and maf the car should start regardless. The wiring for TPS and the dual 02 sensor/ dual knock sensor stuff shouldn’t actually stop the car from starting or even running well, (just slightly rich)  they just give fault codes. Car supposedly is supposed to start as long as you have z32 afm and ecu with the nistune base map and that’s info coming from a well known and trusted tuner who does a lot with SR/RB (Rsenthalpy). After more trouble shooting today where I’m at right now is that the cas is sending signal to the injectors they click while spinning the rotor, Fuel pressure is now set at 43psi, all cylinders have good compression and all of the plugs looked great (just wet with fuel) except for cylinder 1 which was very black (cylinder 1 has 150psi compression). all of the coils generate spark if pulled out and grounded out on the head. On the fuel pump car just pops into the exhaust. On starting fluid car will fire off. Hard to tell if all cylinders are firing off but definitley a couple. sounds like all of them but it’s only for 3-5 seconds hard to tell. 

[25zenki]

1 hour ago, blind_elk said:

Are you sure the plugs are firing in the correct sequence at the correct time?

Black or fuel soaked spark plugs are unlikely to want to fire properly. Fit a set of cheap coppers (like BCPR6ES) until you diagnose the problem.

Are you sure the injectors are working properly, ie not flooding the cylinder?

I haven’t pulled the injectors to watch them spray yet but they are clicking from the cas and all of the spark plugs are wet with fuel. I’ve thought the cylinders were being flooded from the beginning and was hoping fuel pressure would fix it. Tonight I am going to pull the rail and watch the injectors spray. Don’t know how to test/diagnose if the plugs are firing in correct sequence but that should be a timing thing and as far as timing goes my car still has the half moon for the cas can only install it 1 way. And my mechanical timing is 100% correct I posted photos above. Confirmed with the balancer on and off. 

[MBS206]

Check the injectors flow evenly, and are actually flowing what you and the ECU think they should be flowing.

If it's starting up on starter fluid, you have a fuel issue.

Is it possible under cranking your fuel pump is turning off?

 

The harness you replaced, is that the whole engine harness?

Do yourself a test, and drop the old harness on and plug it into the Z32 ECU. It's possible they've wired things different.

From memory S1 to S2 is different in RB25 and you may have a wrong loom