Power FC in Automatic?!?!

[maccaz_gts25t]

i herd that i cannot get a power FC ecu for my r33 gts-t because it is auto....True ot not?? if so true then what is the next best thing...change to manual i guess.....or is there better ECU's out there?

[raz0r$harP.UK]

Just go a piggyback ECU, like an Apexi SAFC, Greddy E-manage, etc.

[R31Nismoid]

Seach button mate

This has been covered solidly since 2004

[Fastrotor]

LINK works fine with Auto.

[The Mafia]

and links are an awesome piece of work. Better than PFC.

[habibskyline]

What can the stock auto gearbox handle? (in RWKW form?)

[Chase-u]

From what i heard the other day, the power fc will run with the auto but you have to manually shift the auto once it is done. A place called M V Auto's do it, and its around the $300 mark i think. It's just a lil black box that takes control of the gearbox and lets the power fc do it's own thing with everything else. He does awesome work, and even HPI or Zoom are using him at the moment with their rb26 4 door skyline they are doing. He has no website, but here is his address and number : Unit 3/1 Stirling Road, Blackwood, SA, 5051. Phone:. (08) 8370 0430. For a full rebuild in most auto cars, it is around $2600 but that is a full rebuild, carbon clutches, more cluches per gear, upgraded stally, stage 1 or 1.5 shift kit, service lockup clutch etc. That for the 1jz auto will hold 330+kw so i'd ring him and ask about the skyline ones, but i can't see there'd be too much difference

Hope that helps

[R31Nismoid]

and links are an awesome piece of work. Better than PFC.

ease up!

[maccaz_gts25t]

when you say links...what you mean?

is link a brand???

[Fastrotor]

That is correct LINK is the brand ..... you want a "GTSLink" for your skyline, they replace the factory computer inside the actual ecu's case..... totally stock from the outside.

Works with auto not a prob.... no mods necessary. You just select "auto" in the setup of it. It allows extra fuel percentage to be added when in Drive. Also it stops the idle control from trying to increase rpm to the idle value when in drive.

Gary

[paulr33]

does the link back off the timing during gear changes?

hehe the link vs powerfc is still un-answered from the last posts from cubes

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/sh...ead.php?t=79922

perhaps you can shed some light on it and answer some of them

[Fastrotor]

No the link doesn't back the timing off on gearchanges. From an engine point of view there is no need if tuned correctly at all load points.

But i guess you ask as you want it to soften the power to the auto on the change ?

My way of thinking is if your putting in an alternate to factory, generally your looking for power, so why not add the shift kit to the auto and not worry about it.

Doing data logging it seems the auto takes a full second to shift , thats from the time the revs start to drop till they start to climb again. (foot flat). Shift kit will be here next week so i'll let you's know how it changes the time.

Gary

[Sydneykid]

No ignition retard on gearshift (auto) means harsh gearchanges and premature wear of the 2nd gear belt and 3rd and 4th gear clutches. The gearchanges are rough on heavy throttle and uncomfortable on light throttle. Adding a shift kit, upgraded valve body or stronger belt/clutches makes no improvement to the quality of the gearchange. In fact the tigher (shorter) shift makes the lack of ignition retard even more obvious/noticeable.

In that regard I have tried autos with Wolf, Power FC. Motec, Autronic and Microtec and none are any better than any other. I have no reason to believe that Link would be any better. I have investigated and tested a number of cars because I have an auto Stagea (we use it to tow the race car) and I wanted to upgrade the ECU. I have had no success finding an ECU, despite over 12 months of looking. So I have a Jaycar DFA (similar to SAFC) and an Apexi SITC tricking the standard ECU. No loss of shift quality or damage to the auto.

Check out the Stagea section for more details:cheers:

[Fastrotor]

I see your point, but i truly can say the shifts didn't feel any harsher or uncomfortable on light throttle by any means. I'll live with it this week and see how i feel then, as i havn't had it in long(link).

The power is only 150 rwkw's (dynolog ... stock line is about 110 on them. I had 125 rwkw with just exhaust and pod. Gained 45 rwkw's midrange, and 25 top end... no more midrange blues finally)

So, if i was to interface into the auto ecu and detect a gear change then retard the timing externally (custom ignitor with retard input) , what sort of timing would you pull out ?

Gary

[Sydneykid]

I see your point, but i truly can say the shifts didn't feel any harsher or uncomfortable on light throttle by any means.  I'll live with it this week and see how i feel then, as i havn't had it in long(link).  

The power is only 150 rwkw's (dynolog ... stock line is about 110 on them. I had 125 rwkw with just exhaust and pod. Gained 45 rwkw's midrange, and 25 top end... no more midrange blues finally)

So, if i was to interface into the auto ecu and detect a gear change  then retard the timing externally (custom ignitor with retard input) , what sort of timing would you pull out ?

Gary

Hi Gary, the standard ECU has a very sophisticated map that looks at rpm, throtle position, road speed, load (via the AFM), engine water temp and then calculates the exact amount of ignition retard and/or cut required. The Nissan guys tell me that there is more code in the shift logic program then there is needed to run the engine. There is most certainly not one, single retard amount (like 10 degrees).

I hate piggy backs, they are pain in the ass compromise, but I haven't found a better solution:cheers:

[32vspecII]

manual conversion = better solution

[Fastrotor]

Yes i agree piggyback soloutions arn't the most desirable. But sometimes are the best option for the desired results. As you've pointed out, even if it was an option in an aftermarket comp, the amount of detail would be far less than the stock comp.

I'll look into the external soloution i suggested, if i can find some wiring details on the auto comp and i'll whip up a trial circuit and have a play.... also will get into links ear about it. See if they are sympathetic towards doing it at some stage.

Gary

[Sydneykid]

Yes i agree piggyback soloutions arn't the most desirable. But sometimes are the best option for the desired results.  As you've pointed out, even if it was an option in an aftermarket comp, the amount of detail would be far less than the stock comp.  

I'll look into the external soloution i suggested, if i can find some wiring details on the auto comp and i'll whip up a trial circuit and have a play....   also will get into links ear about it. See if they are sympathetic towards doing it at some stage.

Gary

Hi Gary, apparently Apexi have been asked a number of times to do a Power FC's for auto Nissans, same as they do for auto Toyotas. From what I heard Apexi can not justify the cost in programming, even amortised over the large number of auto Power FC's they would sell. The programming for the Toyota auto in the engine ECU is apparently nowhere near as complex. That's why there are Power FC's for Toyota autos. I haven't seen any Power FC's for Honda or Mazda autos either, so it's not like Nissan are on their own.

[Fastrotor]

Well to be honest i think a reasonably basic setup would work fine.... have the retard based on tps and revs and map load... all combining ... the bigger each one, the more retard, up to a maximum value. I mean for the most part that would totally suffice i would suggest ..

Can you think of any others that would need to be done ? I can make a board and put it all inside the LINK, so it would be plug and play anyhow once done. The only hard part is determining when a shift is about to happen..... im not sure wheather the comp and auto cpu use straight signals or actually communicate with one another via a serial protocol of sorts... im guessing second option, unfortunately...

I guess i could just look for conditions that indicate a change, ie full load, revs start dropping, tps stable... would take some logging to get an idea really.

(edit thinking about it , looking at revs and tps for the shift indication should work, say if revs drop by 5% without a corresponding tps drop, we could assume a shift is taking place and retard , based on tps pos, map load and revs)

(edit again Might have to put a threshold on map too as i forgot if you drive up a hill, revs can drop and you dont always change your foot position.... lots of datalogging required to analyse different conditions i think)

Gary

[Sydneykid]

Well to be honest i think a reasonably basic setup would work fine.... have the retard based on tps and revs and map load...  all combining ... the bigger each one, the more retard, up to a maximum value.   I mean for the most part that would totally suffice i would suggest ..

Can you think of any others that would need to be done ?  I can make a board and put it all inside the LINK, so it would be plug and play anyhow once done.  The only hard part is determining when a shift is about to happen..... im not sure wheather the comp and auto cpu use straight signals or actually communicate with one another via a serial protocol of sorts...  im guessing second option, unfortunately...

I guess i could just look for conditions that indicate a change, ie full load, revs start dropping, tps stable...   would take some logging to get an idea really.

(edit   thinking about it , looking at revs and tps for the shift indication should work, say if revs drop by 5% without a corresponding tps drop, we could assume a shift is taking place and retard , based on tps pos, map load and revs)

(edit again  Might have to put a threshold on map too as i forgot if you drive up a hill, revs can drop and you dont always change your foot position.... lots of datalogging required to analyse different conditions i think)

Gary

Hi Gary, as I posted previously this is complex programming, and there is most certainly data interchange between the Auto ECU and the Engine ECU. The ECU pinouts on R33/R34 indicate an even higher level/volume/speed of coms than R32. The Stagea S1 sits between R33 S2 and R34, with the Stagea S2 the same as R34.