Can Mods = Less Performance?

[tezflow]

I want to put an exhaust on the 33 to get it sounding a bit meaner as well as getting the 15to25kw increase in power various mechanics has told me it would unleash (turbo back that is) but I dont have the money buy some sort of new ecu to tune it for the exhaust and pod. Ive noticed that when i have dragged some guys that i thought would rip my stock r33 due to their ones having exhaust and big front mounts, they are actually slower, and im not imagining my cars fast or something, it was proven by comparison times at calder park mine stock 14.6 others with the above mentioned mods (at least) same at best but others still getting low 15etc, they were manual gtst's as well.

I know there are heaps of r33 getting 12, 11 and below but im asuming these guys would have spent $1000s on new computers.

So back to my question will modifying the car without getting a tune result in worse performance?

[sammus]

there's so many variables... what kind of tyres did they have?

[R31Nismoid]

doing exhaust/pod wouldnt be too bad.

You can get performance gains there.

Upping the boost to 10psi i think you'd get away with also

Obviously it will run better with SAF-C/PowerFC or similar but it will still go ok if you do exhaust/pod no problems.

As for the other cars not beating you.

I'd put that down to driver

[predator]

or older engines not making as much power.. bad suspension setups, cheap tyres as they spent the all the money on the fancy front mount, etc, etc.

First thing you can almost tell how well somebody is going to run, is scoping out their tyres

[lwells]

or older engines not making  as much power.. bad suspension setups, cheap tyres as they spent the all the money on the fancy front mount, etc, etc.

First thing you can almost tell how well somebody is going to run, is scoping out their tyres

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you missed the obvious one: shit drivers

[tezflow]

yeah it probably is the more hammered engines producing less power theory coupled with shit driving, i dunno about the tyres though coz ive got Simex, as far as i know they are the cheapest worste tyres money can buy, just got them for complience lol.

[predator]

no Falken ZE326 are possibly the worst tyre you can buy but yeah, tyres aren't the whole equation.

[R33_Series2Lover]

Aftermarket computer for only exhaust and pod??? just reset your ecu and it will run mad!!! If you dont want to reset the ecu just drive it around for abit and ur ecu will auto learn the new mods.dont even worry about it now. whenever you up the boost and go for a front mount and if you want a blow off valve then go the safcII or power fc.

[R33_Series2Lover]

I met a guy who has only the safc II with boost at 10 pounds,front mount,turbo back exhaust , panel air filter and properly tuned I think he got like 185-190kw at the wheels. now thats a pretty quick street car

[paulr33]

I met a guy who has only the safc II with boost at 10 pounds,front mount,turbo back exhaust , panel air filter and properly tuned I think he got like 185-190kw at the wheels. now thats a pretty quick street car

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

crock of shit, ill give him a run im making 193rwkw with powerfc i bet i blow the pants off him, safc makes top end power doesnt make quick streeter car as the stock ecu decides the final story of timing/fuel

[Cubes]

yeah it probably is the more hammered engines producing less power theory coupled with shit driving, i dunno about the tyres though coz ive got Simex, as far as i know they are the cheapest worste tyres money can buy, just got them for complience lol.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Simex are actually pretty good for straight line grip.

They have a very very soft sidewall that causes the tyre to flatten out on to the road. Not good for cornering.

I've tried a few tyres and actually found the simex to grip in a striaght line than Goodyear F1, Bridgestone B530, Firenza ST-03, Sava.

All normal tyres, obviously a nice set of tyres will out grip the simex but for the price, they are damn good.

Remember Rev210 in his near stock high 12 sec R33 GTST, that ran 205 simex.

[Andi]

Stock R33 ECU's have self-learning capabilities?

Your stock ECU should be fine with just pod and exhaust, but just an interceptor or a piggyback like E-Manage should be enough for your car. It really depends on how far you want to go mate. If you don't plan on changing turbos, injectors, afm etc. then a SAFC to change AFR's to more suitable levels (for both power and better fuel economy) should be enough, or if you want to do ignition as well get the E-Manage.

Good to see you're doing comparisons with quater mile times though, power figures only go so far. 1/4 mile and trap speed all the way mate. And yeah the guys you raced are probably really crappy drivers. =\ Even if the engine was complete crap, I can't imagine ALL the skylines there had buggered engines. Low to mid 14's sound right on the mark for a R33 with pod, full exhaust and bit of boost in my opinion.

[R33_Series2Lover]

Hmmm i think im going to have to go and slap my mate in the back of the head for lying to me. bastard

[tezflow]

Aftermarket computer for only exhaust and pod??? just reset your ecu and it will run mad!!!

Stock R33 ECU's have self-learning capabilities?

so who's right? will an ecu reset put forward any benefits? its hard to belive a program can start learning how to perform beter once an exhaust and pod have been added to the car. I know how to reset it, but will it make a difference, and is it true you really need to thrash the car heaps after doin it, or is it just more fun to do it that way

[R31Nismoid]

It will learn... to an extent.

Its nothing "great" though.

[benl1981]

The Powerfc is obviously better but a SAFC style device shouldnt loose out too much to a PFC if relatively stock right. Assuming You are close to detonation and you are able to get almost 12:1 AFR then there is no reason why a PFC will make more average power.

I find that even on stock boost with exhaust and R34 intercooler I can sometimes feel the ECU cutting the timing especially in cold weather when the air is more dense.

Installing a jaycar fuel adjuster to see if it helps.

Sometime I think the mods can make it slower if you dont adjust the Airflow readings or reprogram ECU/new ECU

Edited September 19, 2005 by benl1981

[Cubes]

Thats correct with regards to peak power ben.

When it comes to average power the pfc leaves the safc well behind.

Average power is what accelerates a car.

[benl1981]

If you are on the boarderline of detonation and at 12:1 AFR for the whole rev band then you won't gain by having a PFC. Obviously there are less compromises with the PFC to ensure that you can advance the timing enough and lean out the mixxtures to avoid detonation. Sometimes you wont get it perfect with the SAFC but I think in some cases average power would be similar

[psybic]

To answer the thread. Ofcourse a mod can loose performance. Lots of mods could and do, do this. Cams: change the curve, so at some points, its not going to be as good as without. Turbo, bigger, laggier. Obviously if you do a stupid thing, like, put a massive turbo on a car and leave the exhaust and ecu and cams stock, it won't work very well at all. Or take it to extremes, modify your car by putting a smaller engine in and it may well lose power. So mods aren't always going to equal power, you gotta be a little educated about it.

I'd say alot of stock cars are getting around that have good compression and are in a healthy running order which will outway a few kws gained by having an exhaust and a pod.

[Cubes]

If you are on the boarderline of detonation and at 12:1 AFR for the whole rev band then you won't gain by having a PFC.  Obviously there are less compromises with the PFC to ensure that you can advance the timing enough and lean out the mixxtures to avoid detonation.  Sometimes you wont get it perfect with the SAFC but I think in some cases average power would be similar

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unfortunately its not the way it is.

Note all the ppls that have gone to a pfc and gone. 'wow' the extra mid range power.

I would kill to have a good look at a rb20det or rb25det stock ecu's ignition map.

Edited September 19, 2005 by Cubes