Can Mods = Less Performance?

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

Unfortunately its not the way it is.

Note all the ppls that have gone to a pfc and gone. 'wow' the extra mid range power.

I would kill to have a good look at a rb20det or rb25det stock ecu's ignition map.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alright let just say everything else is the same (engine, mods, drivers,...) and you put 2 cars agaisnt each other, one SAFC and the other PFC, which one would win on 1/4 mile?

[predator]

Unfortunately its not the way it is.

Note all the ppls that have gone to a pfc and gone. 'wow' the extra mid range power.

I would kill to have a good look at a rb20det or rb25det stock ecu's ignition map.

This do? rb20det.. I've got a couple of people that I need knocked off, let me know when you're available

[Bass Junky]

PFC every time

[benl1981]

Ok - look at this graph I ripped from the stagea section. THis guy used the SAFC style device to tune (A jaycar version) - he was able to get good AFR the whole way. If you were using PFC you wouldn't get that much better AFR control and the only real other thing governing power is the Ignition timing which I would imagine is close to as far advanced as you would want....

Where could PFC benefit you here then???

[Cubes]

As you lower the afm signal to lean out the car it runs more ignition timing. Not good for a reliable motor you want to zip around the local track or on a 30-40degree day.

The dyno graph you posted I think is a bad example.

Look at that nasty arsed power dip smack in the middle.

[benl1981]

True it is a compromise - but that dip in the power curve mightn't be fixed by PFC either. On a track day take 2 deg out with the CAS to be safe.. I know PFC is better but not sure how much for slightly modded cars..

[JeeTeeEss25Tee]

I guess the bottom line is about the money, how much u wanna spend on mods. Obviously if you can afford PFC then it would definitely be worth it. However for those are on a budget and not after massive power, a SAFC give excellent value for money, plus that fancy blue LCD to impress da chics

[Cubes]

If the only mods were an exhaust, IC and a bit of boost I wouldn't bother with a FC.

You can pick up a safc for $200-$300, get it tuned for $100 and your on the road, its definitely good bang for buck.

[Andi]

Ben, sure the SAFC can provide a straight AFR curve/line throughout the whole rev-range but I haven't noticed anyone here stating how 12 points of adjustment (SAFC) is alot less compared to the 20x20 map of PFC.

With the 20x20 map, usually TPS vs. RPM, you have much MUCH more potential in tuning the car. This doesn't mean the car will only go good on WOT but you'll also have control over cruise conditions, slightly accelerating etc.

But in regards to mods, mild mods such as boost, full exhaust, IC, CAI - SAFC/E-Manage will be a more suitable choice, although there should still be much to gain if you do go PFC.

[Bass Junky]

Ben1981

You can't advance the ignition timing with a SAFC.

Ignition timing is where the power is.

I went from 165 rwkw to 200 rwkw with a powerFC and made much much much more power EVERYWHERE.

Including right at the bottom.

Even if the powerFC costs $1000 compared to $400 for the SAFC, the value for money is still more better with the PFC.

Oh, and to think that you will only ever need the SAFC cos you aren't going to mod you car any further..... Well, that's just silly talk

I once thought that, and now I'm chasing 260 rwkw with my next mod.

Stoopid Cars.

[R31Nismoid]

If you are on the boarderline of detonation and at 12:1 AFR for the whole rev band then you won't gain by having a PFC. 

Apart from the fact that you have a signifigantly larger amount of load points

PFC tune and get a great result as opposed to a reasonable one (saf-c)

The dyno graph you posted I think is a bad example.

Look at that nasty arsed power dip smack in the middle.

indeed

True it is a compromise - but that dip in the power curve mightn't be fixed by PFC either.

Umm, its the mid-range dip that everyone has come across.

Search around for dyno graphs and you'll find lots with the "dip"

It will definately be fixed via PFC

[benl1981]

ok ok. Maybe the PFC is a lot better but I think with minimal mods it may be a bit of overkill, up to the individual.

I really don’t think my car needs to be much faster for the street though. I reckon with the SAFC or DFA I will manage about a 13.8sec quarter. About as quick as a boxster right?

[Bass Junky]

With a bit of boost, stock everything other than exhaust, I made a 13.4 quarter.

But, I had a slightly slipping clutch (only on launch) and a fully prepped track launching me to a 1.9 60ft.

[ed]

I reckon even a stock car with PFC will see great gains in power and response.

It's not just power you gain, but also response since timing is changed too.

Response makes it fun!

[Andi]

Exactly the reason why I chose the E-Manage over the SAFC or PFC. Much more control than SAFC (16x16 for both AFM and Ignition compared to 12rpm points) and a hell lot cheaper (1/3 the price and about 1/2 price in tuning) than a PFC for a GTiR.

The E-Manage is what I consider just "perfect" for my car with "mild mods": Stock turbo with bit of boost, full turbo back exhaust, Pod with CAI and box, fuel pump, FPR.

[benl1981]

Ed - I doubt you are going to advance the timing that much over the stock ECU. Advanced timing is the only thing that will give you better response. If you advance too much you get pinging...

[R31Nismoid]

when the stocker one craps itself around 4500rpm, filling the big hole is a large difference as stated by half the posts in this thread

[benl1981]

Fair enough - I can certainly feel the stock ECU playing games around this RPM, hoping to tune it out with the DFA. Would be good to drive a SAFC tuned car and a powerfc cars with equal mods to see the actual difference. I know people here seem to say they are streets apart...