13.4 second 1/4 for your 'stockish' R33. (A how to guide).

[PSIKO]

well done rev210! v nice times for such 'little' work!

I know that osc@r doesn't think much of the pineapples ... I put mine on, and noticed a fair amount of difference in traction on 2nd gear

after changing the tyres to some toyo's I can happily say that I have absolutely NO traction problems at all

osc@r said it was set up properly, so I'd say it has something to do with his tyres maybe

the tyre pressure I don't believe in (but you've no doubt read my thoughts over and over again in the wa section :lol:)

do you run thermo fans or anything in yours? Also won't 20+ degrees timing destroy your engine quicker than running 14psi will kill your turbo???

Well done again mate!

[rev210]

With timing, it either is pinging or it isn't. You get plenty of warning when you have too much timing before things start going pear shapped with the motor. plugs and pinging tell you all you need , plus I have a knock sensor read out.

The turbo on the other hand just lets go without warning.

[SHUTO-BOY]

Hey Rev,what do you think about knock sensors?i read somewhere that this thing detects detonation and does stuff to the ignition? Is it a good investment?

[GTS-t VSPEC]

PSIKO,

My car is running about 20deg of timing, and this is quite safe, as rev points out it is the detonation that does damage not the timing itself. If you get it tuned properly then you shouldn't have any problems.

SHUTO-BOY,

The car already comes with a knock sensor, and revs SAFC II is able to monitor the knock sensor and alert him of detonation. A very wise thing to monitor once you start increasing boost.

See'ya:burnout:

[2rismo]

I wondered why I keep hearing people talking about timing as a fixed setting. Now I realise that unless you have a ECU or add-on capable of adjusting the timing at different points in the rev range and under different loads, you can't do anything bar set and forget.

The timing in my Power FC changes constantly and settles on a lower number when it gets a boot full. What are the standard timing settings for an unmodded ECU? Anyone?

TIA

[GTS-t VSPEC]

I think that 15deg is standard. All car regardless of ECU will have a base timing, and that is usually what we are talking about, the ECU can advance or retard this as the revs change.

See'ya:burnout:

[rev210]

The factory ECU can retard the timing upto 15degrees according to what it's knock sensors and airflow signal are telling it. The factory ignition curve shape is basically not altered when you apply more base timing, exept for the fact that you move the curve 'up' by as much extra advance as you apply at the base.

To be honest I am pretty sure I run betweed 30 and 35degrees advance as the point is set one or two markers worth of degrees past the very last marker on the crank. This gives me at least 15 degrees of extra advance no matter what the factory idiot box does.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

With aftermarket ECU's the level of adjustment on timing is much higher, and this will allow for significantly more power to be developed.

rev, Do you think that the S-AFC II is comparable in performance to an aftermarket ecu for a stock turbo, or can the aftermarket ecu gain more power?

See'ya:burnout:

[rev210]

mate, the aftermarket ecu ought to get only a little more top end if any, maybe none when both can supply enough fuel.

The big difference is in the mid range power band and engine response. The extra resolution and timing re-curve ought to extend the width and height of the mid range power. What is not seen on the dyno is the effect good tuning can have on resonse time when individual rpm points are targeted.

This is why race cars use motec and things. We often look at the race cars oughtright power level but it is super critical to maintain a fast response. One of the reasons super light flywheels are popular. Motec provide enourmous tuning resolution, which is time consuming to utilise but, in a race situation the extra expense is a worthwhile investment.

On the street we have larger power bands(not higher), more forgiving to generalised tuning.

[SHUTO-BOY]

Im dont really know much about timing stuff but its important.For instance,when i had my car tuned on the dyno for more boost,on the first power run the power curve was terrible.It was like at 170hp,went suddenly down to 70hp and went up to 170hp again.Grant from per4manz adjusted the timing and now the power curve is smooth,all the way to 245rwhp.Oh yea,he also says 12 psi is optimum boost for a stock R33 turbo.

13.6

-outlaw racing-

[Jay95R33]

Rev - Did you re-drill the slots in the sensor thingy to that much advance??

I heard from someone that one of the benefits of the S-AFC wasn't just reducing the mega rich A/F, but also the addition of more advance timing due to the AFM seeing less airflow (after the S-AFC). Apparently the more air flow the stock ECU see's, the more it will retard the timing.

Is this right??

[rev210]

yeah, I think there is that to consider also.

I have to peg back the timing no doubt to lean off any further than the -6% 4000rpm peak I am using at hi throttle.

[2rismo]

what's the tuning res on a motec? i know my power fc is 20x20.

I thought motec was 16x16? or is that microtech? i always mix them up

[rev210]

More than your PFC. 1024 map points at least from memory.

[2rismo]

that's bloody heaps!! unreal. no need to be a sarcastic bitch about my PFC though j/k

Having that many map points makes for SUPER accurate tuning when in the right hands and would require a laptop i'm guessing. That's unreal. I'm forced to use a hand controller so i'm fair stoked that i dont have to dick with that many rev/load points.

For anyone that has or has had a full replacement ECU of any kind, do you bother tuning the whole lot for hours or do you mainly concern yourself with full throttle tuning for different loads?

reason i ask is, i think i could get significantly better fuel economy at highway speeds and crusing loads if i focused more on tuning these points next dyno run. Thoughts? Suggestions? Merli, are you following this thread? I need someone with more PWC exp. than me.

TIA.

[rev210]

sorry mate wasn't trying to be sarcastic.

20x20 is alot too., 16x16 is plenty for the street.

I wouldn't expect so, fuel ecconomy wise. maybe a little (i am assuming you have a pretty good tune already). Fuel ecconomy setting is leaner and can dull the throttle a bit.

[EnricoPalazzo]

Sorry for my ignorance, but how do u adjust timing?

My car is soon to arrive in Aust, and once its on the road, its goin for a service, and dyno (with tuning of timing if possible).

The mods on the car are Large exhaust (wateva that means) HKS airpod, HKS SS BOV, Tien fully adjustables with 235 rears.

Hope i can get some good times at the drags.

[R33NT]

I havent had a chance to read through all the previous pages but one minor thing i read in a mag that gives a gain is to pull the steel grate of the inlet to the air flow meter.

[GTS-t VSPEC]

Enrico,

Adjust the timing by moving the crank-angle sensor, don't do this until someone shows you how with a timing light. Even minor adjustment can have dramatic effects.

R33NT,

Don't bother with the removel of the mesh, it is more likely to cause more problems than it solves. If you want more power put more air in.

See'ya:burnout:

[R33NT]

The article did a before and after dyno run showing there was an actual gain (i dont remember how much) in removing the mesh. Anyway you dont technically force more air in there you actually suck more air in there and the more tubulence (caused by something like a grate) the less flow you get!!!!

Anyway as long as you are careful not to leave the filter off and the filter is internally clean when you bolt it in then it wont cause any problems.