Lithium

Share the GTX3067R results if or when they become available, will be really interesting to see. What kind of vehicle is it on?

When I've call you out it's not for sport, I think you just a few too many times misappropriating some things and I decided that if you are able to back it up you should have the opportunity to - or be reasonable and keep it real. Sounds like we're all on a similar page there - totally agree re-the TR30, I was more curious about the flow etc.. as I had assumed that was the point of this thread. At face value the 60trim 71mm wheel combined with the 76trim turbine sounds like a very interesting combination, would be very interesting to drive/dyno. Out of interests sake on of the projects which I am involved with is a GC8 STi track toy which will be running a late model EVO twin scroll turbo attached to a modified OEM late model twin scroll Subaru STi exhaust manifold, the car will be ~1100kg and fuelled on E85, I expect it to be proper quick. We've tried an EVO 3 TD05-16G on an RB20 almost a decade ago too, again - very rewarding exercise at a time where everyone else seemed content with putting T3/T4E 57trims onto them and making barely any more power with 1000rpm less full boost rpm.

I would assume those 5:1 pressure ratio compressors are the ones intended for use with restrictors, which leads me to wonder which unit the guy I posted those results for was running. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if it turned out he was running the 40trim (shudder) 5:1 pressure ratio unit and had it on kill everywhere - the power and spool would both add up, and it would make sense with the restrictor that the pressure ratios would be enormous. I haven't done as much research on these specific turbos as Disco, I've ultimately figured that it's not likely to become too useful to me without seeing results to quantify what is happening - but it sounds like our thinking is similar. There are a few things in those specs which reak, at least to me... of "old generation" thinking in terms of the design etc and I suspect like for like EFR turbos would probably be a more attractive thing. The fact that us plebs can acquire them is a big thing as well.

It was indeed perfect for me, I moved on because I had pulled the car off the road to decide what next and GotRice? hassled me until I sold it to him lol. The only options which would now suit better would be an EFR7670 or a GT3076R-HTA, which weren't options back then. Onto the topic, do you have any theories as to why Garrett didn't use a TR30R style turbine for the masses - DP... or why they chose the 84-trim GT30 if it wasn't optimal? Another point of interest to me is that they never went BB GT32 - though the released a plain bearing tiny trim (73trim) 63mm version which flows less than a 84-trim GT30, probably more comparably with a large a/r GT28. I figure if we're going to explore the gaps and look for ways to fill them - it may be worth considering why Garrett when they were in the position to decide, why they chose to do what they did. I find it interesting that the TR30R I posted results of earlier COMPLETELY maxed out on E85 at ~450whp (Dynojet style - so ~300kw DynoDynamics) on a really well built motor with no restrictor too - possibly those smaller trim turbines are a compromise to suit the specific needs? Any thoughts?

I have no doubts that the GT3076R is too laggy for his liking, different strokes for different folks... but misrepresentation of the truth or calling it a fail turbo because it doesn't suit him is where I will engage I have eluded to it before, the GT3071R and GT3076R are perfectly streetable - the only thing the GT28 can do tangibly better on an RB25 is allow "excessive acceleration" (By NZ Police terms) at a slightly lower engine speed. Given that this is only applicable at low speed (ie rolling out of traffic lights) and I am a law abiding citizen, it has never been a concern for me. The GT3076R+RB25 combination on a well tuned car will accelerate more than sufficiently to drive 'normally' in those rpm ranges, and all other situations will kick happily into life - so really it is part of the reason I've not put too much strain into trying to come up with reasons why to make it respond better.

Honestly wasn't worked up (this time haha), I am just trying to express how totally irrelevant some stuff is - just trying to keep disco down to earth, these conversations would be way more productive if the lines between theory and reality were distinguished so we could get somewhere further than Discopotato recycling his opinions. There is a lot to be shared, and if we can collectively combine stuff we might end up with a neat idea somewhere.

No idea who Scott is, who Insight are, why I should dismiss any doubts I have due to some complete random who appears to agree totally with what you say without any evidence there has been any reasoning put into it beyond the reasoning you expressed earlier - which there is an aspect of which is inherently flawed, but no doubt you didn't regard it as usual. An EFR7064 would do the job for you absolutely fine as well, yes the EFR7163 will be good if/when it ever goes into production but again the 7064 will be an all around upgrade over that thing you have on there at the moment, especially in transition. You clearly haven't noticed I've not been trying to talk you into the GT3076R, I have even agreed that the GT2871R was probably the best choice for you - at least at the point you went for it. From my perspective the difference between you and I is one of us pays reasonable attention to what other people are saying and what they want - with an open mind to how to get to that point... I suspect if you paid more attention to my posts you'd spend less time beating a dead horse. Nonetheless, I don't give a shit about what this Scott at Insight will be quoted by you as saying - while I agree that the GT3076R is clearly not a good option for you, they do drive fine on the road. To keep pressing that matter with someone who enjoyed daily driving one for years is blatant stupidity - not to mention missing the point I was trying to make. I agree the TR30Rs are likely to be brilliant things, and I have expressed my curiousity about them here too. Realistically they probably better suited to their purpose (HEAVY thrashing in rally/antilag and endurance racing) than most of the turbos we discuss on here - arguably short of the EFR turbos which have superceeded them in some places, and ARE available to us. The thing about the TR30Rs is they are designed to be light, strong and fit class restrictions primarily - the performance would of course have been good for it's time but there is absolutely no evidence to show that they will perform any better than combinations which people here can or do already use for their purposes. Any evidence you can present to suggest otherwise would be greatly appreciated. At the moment the theory vs evidence ratio of what you have supplied here is 100:0. The only person we've seen sharing real world experience with them had the competitive hillclimb car who went from a TR30R to a HTA35R and ended up a much happier man.

Same, a few weeks after I bought mine I ran it with pod filter exhaust and no other mods (turned out it was boost creeping - I assumed it was stock as I had no aftermarket boost gauge) and did 14.1 @ 103mph/165kph on a quite slippery track: http://www.dragtimes.com/Nissan-Skyline-Timeslip-3450.html

101mph? That'd have to be a HELL of a launch etc to do low 13s or 12s off that, with slicks at least. 101mph is reasonably typical for high 13s/low 14s on a clean run. What power and type of car are we talking? With reasonable spool I'd be expecting under 200kw from an R33 - if it is much over 200kw then its not a driver issue, it is something to do with how the power is delivered (which could include how much power there is).

I have to add here, don't take these nudges personally Disco - apologies if it is a bit like that, you have a great amount of knowledge to share which is good, I often enjoy your posts when they aren't distorting reality. All I am trying to do is keep theory, opinion and fact clearly defined otherwise you are misrepresenting information and leading people astray... making things more complicated than they need to be when trying to decide how to spend their well earned money. The way you described a GT30R as driving paints it out to be like what a T51R is actually like. Try and keep it real, and you won't have me leaping into your face

2.3litre stroker, 10:1 compression on E85 - the guy ended up upgraded to a HTA35R for his un-restricted events and never looked back... said the TR30R's performance was not the expect magic lag free stuff people would imagine and he concluded that the TR30R's main advantages was that it met class restrictions where applicable and that it was lighter and stronger (ie for antilag/general punishment) than typical units. Here's a blog from after he upgraded to the HTA: http://blog.amsperformance.com/2009/08/12/amsnos-energy-drink-hill-climb-evo-takes-1st-in-class-at-lands-end-hill-climb/ Iirc the car ended up on the dyno with the same engine setup and ended up with around 670whp - ultimately schooled the TR30R.

Not true at all, myself and plenty of other people here have run around for years with .82a/r GT3076Rs which neither choke nor are lag monsters. Please stop spreading your theory based opinions as flat truths, while I am in no way implying the GT30 is any gods gift - I knew when I bought mine it wasn't, but it WAS something that would suit my purpose fine, and clearly did. I know you are going to steam roll this with theoritical bollux but the fact of the matter (for those who know no better, and encounter this thread when trying to research for their own choices) is that it does not make a car into an automatic lag monster which is only good for high speed runs. Fact: My car was no worse to drive (in most cases better) than your typical factory turbo EVO/STi for low rpm driveability. If you think that a GT3076R is that bad, you are making a statement about the boost threshold and response of some of the most popular performance cars on the market. I have been long fascinated by and read much into the TR30Rs over the years as well, and had a good ponder on them - you have to remember these things were made to perform as well as possible while meeting particular class requirements. Due to compromises we can't assume that the performance difference is going to be AS different as you might be hoping or implying. I'm certainly not going to say it won't either - but you are hypothesising to the point of make believe so I thought I'd make sure the real world (where we can't just bolt these on and try it to find THE TRUTH) isn't forgotten about. When you are moving into a different family of wheel design (unless you are an aerodynamics expert, which it is clear to me you aren't - and neither am I) you can't extrapolate the performance of one wheel of a slightly different size or trim with another. The same as you can't line up a bunch of turbine wheels from different manufacturers and order wheel sizes and trim from smallest to largest and say "Ok - this is the order of response and flow". It won't work. Same will apply to wheels of different families of the same manufacturer, even T-series vs GT-series... I am ever pondering a way to become all rich and powerful, it seems tricky but I assure you if I succeed my hollowed out mountain will have a lot of performance testing equipment and lots of Frankenturbos will be built/acquired/tested and other silly things would happen. Don't hold your breath, sadly. The only proper legendary motorsport turbo anyone I know have acquired for personal use was an IHI RX8 which is hardly useful to our interests, it was for his drag car and while it had a lot of compressor it didn't prove as magical as he had hoped - exhaust manifold pressure skyrocketing on high boost, the turbo was clearly much better suited to how they were used on Indy cars than on a Mitsi drag car. It is interesting to see how they work on a dyno though, here is a couple of dyno plots from a seriously built hillclimb car using a TR30R - not all events it entered required a restrictor so they set up two tunes for it, one with and one without. Shows fairly well how they perform with and without, with all the boost thrown at it:

You missed the point and the later hint, so I will reply one more time to clearer explain my position here to you as I am past trying to explain something to you which you aren't smart enough, too arrogant, or just plain too aspy about unobtainium Garretts to think or care about. I had been trying to move into a constructive conversation but you are clearly far too absorbed with your own opinion.... so in future don't bother putting your rants to me about stuff I *already know* in future as though you are teaching someone wide (or glazed) eyed, they will be regarded as mindless drivel and you are not going to get a response as it is clear as day it will be a total waste of my time doing so. The philosophy I was rolling with when I posted has been around for Millennia - there was a guy once called Aristotle... he was really smart and came up with the line "The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts". Even though there have been leaps and bounds in bearing, and aerodynamic technology since his days his line is as relevant as it ever was. It is ALWAYS possible to make something using older and individually inferior bits which will perform better than something built of few newer superior individual bits if it suits the specific purpose better. Sure it is possible to make something even better using the right combination of new bits, but if you don't have access to said new bits - what is the point... and wouldn't it be better to have the right combination of new and old versus an inferior combination of only new? That was a rhetorical question, by the way. A conclusion to this thread? Garrett don't give a shit - they are selling turbines, cores and compressors they have had for AGES (yes the GTX compressor design can be traced back to the 80s) and they are making awesome money off people who mildlessly buy Garrett stuff. There is no need for them to get too fancy with it as there is plenty of market for their half assed efforts. Borg Warner have effectively done with the EFR-series what you are ultimately gagging for Garrett to do, Power Enterprise did some similar things with their RX6R turbos years ago, if you want something better suited to your specific needs than you're going to have to spend a shitload of money or get a bit more open minded.

I would love to know what your definition of "outright numbers" are if you call 6266 for response and midrange versus big power!! I assume given you didn't go 6262 or equivalent you intend on pushing the turbo reasonably hard?

Me too - though I get frustrated when I can see potential for an interesting constructive conversation and have the participant too absorbed in telling you what you already know to realise you are able and willing to bounce ideas to create a situation where all participants may end up better off than they were before the conversation. I have no idea why twice now I've taken time out to try and add something useful to this thread, I clearly don't. Won't happen again

Did you have some better luck with this? Any results to share, or racing going to be happening this weekend?

Bugger! I have the funniest feeling that "only" ~25psi will be enough....

Retuned!? Man, cutting it close for the weekend - good luck!

I am not convinced going to a GTX is worth your effort. I am hoping Bri73y will post his results from his HTA3076 when he has some to share - I've been banking on that to show what Garrett shot for with the GTX, and missed.

Can't really scoff at the dyno results - or otherwise, its so close. If there is definitely a noticeable improvement in temperature across the 6 cylinders then it HAS to be a good thing. I'm a firm believer in making the engine happy first, and power gains being a result of that is a nice bonus - but the same power with a less stressed motor is brilliant.

Very very solid power for the old RB26 on low mounts, gotta be happy with that. Yep - and with this whole 2% difference thing the results are so close that there any range of minor variables could result in those changes, as said... a tiny boost leak, some other random thing that may have changed, even the way the tuner set up the boost control or conditions on the day. You can see that difference between a cold and hot run even, so it is a bit hard to jump to any major conclusions on - as Andy indicated. Was it previously running a factory plenum?

If you aren't going to upgrade injectors and can't afford to then it is basically a waste of money doing much to try and make it make more power. Odds are you will end up with more lag and barely any power difference, so ultimately a slower less fun car. Not running a BOV is going to kill any turbo you put on there eventually

Tried it recently on a VK45 Nissan Cima and it didn't work, might have to try and updated the software and see if it works now

I remember yonks ago calling my doubts of the GTX3076R's worth. Has anyone driven an equivalent GTX3071R and GT3076R? How much difference is there between the two? It was really the one I had the highest hopes for, and that hasn't changed. The GTX3067R is a very interesting unit too... could go either way, I'd say it's real worth will be for those running stock engines and exhaust manifolds - in those situations it'll probably be a totally gun choice. Anything more ambitious and I'd say it'll be time to go bigger, even if slightly.

To be fair I'd thought it'd be too much for even the stock injectors! What is it that is not good with the R33 turbo, is it too laggy - or not enough power?