Lithium

Ohhh I wouldn't go that far, I just got back from having a drive with my .82a/r GT3076R boosted R33 S2 and I really don't look back - so much fun

Thats pretty easy: HKS GT2530 Compressor: 47.7mm inducer, 60.1mm exducer Turbine: 53.8mm Inducer, 47.0mm exducer If you were to double the area of the wheels, the inducer and exducer equivalents would be: Compressor: 67.5mm inducer, 85mm exducer Turbine: 76.1mm inducer, 66.5 exducer Garrett GT3582R Compressor: 61.4mm inducer, 82.0mm exducer Turbine: 68mm inducer, 62.3mm exducer The trick is with the GT2530 it has double the amount of material for the equivalent surface area, seeing as it has two wheels - that is weight and also space not taken up by air. I'd imagine that will (aside from fluid dynamics which are beyond me but must come into effect when two compressors are trying to pump in the same path) compromise some efficiency. There are definitely advantages to the twins, but I'm yet to be sold on them making them better than a matched single. I'm still learning stuff, but can't help but think that the tight housings they put on GT2530s etc must strangle them a bit compare to the relative large housings you get on GT3582Rs. A GT3582R I am very sure has a LOT more housing volume than a pair of GT2530s, which is maybe part of the reason why they aren't as punchy as you'd imagine compared to the GT2530s - but also why they can push enough air to warrant a conversation about them?

I realise this, but I can't show you a graph to demonstrate as there is no easy way of doing so. I can and will try and endevour to get some evidence of how a GT2530/GT2860-5/GT3582R car all compare as I get sick of speculating on this topic - and hearing what are often unfounded opinions supporting one or the other way of doing things. For what its worth some of the fastest track cars in NZ are EVOs running GT3582Rs on 2litre engines, I've been in one myself which with full interior and pump gas temporarily (until a full competition car at the same event) took out the course record on a tight hill climb event. If a 2litre engine running high 300awkw on pump gas on one of these turbos can be highly competitive on a circuit I don't think the response is going to harm a 2.6litre. As I've said before and you seem to ignore, the GT3582R GTR I have driven comes across as overall more responsive than GT2530 cars I have driven - Cube's example of GT2530s from 4000rpm assumed they take off from those revs on an RB26. They don't, if you do that from 4000rpm in 2nd on an RB26 it fluffs around for a bit before it does much. A GT3582R while it doesn't leap straight onto full boost either will give you a pretty decisive push in the back and then charge up the road, I can't argue it TOO hard but I really remember feeling more impressed at how the GT3582R responded than how disappointed with the GT2530s I felt. The reason I focus on 4000rpm is if you keep the GTR I talk about on the boil (ie, race track revs) then whenever you floor it the thing takes off like something with its arse on fire.

GT3582Rs are WAY more responsive than T04Zs. Cubes, that response you talk about is going to be hard to improve on. No matter what turbo you have it has to accelerate up to speed. The fact yours spools way earlier and has the same kind of response indicates to me your car is WAY punchier. Strictly speaking up to a point you may not get a lot more response beyond a certain point, and clearly there is around a 1000rpm area where yours has to be more responsive as it can make more boost in that rev range? Also while I have you, you know how your car spools the GT30R - and that GT35Rs are the next logical upgrade (laggier, but not hugely so), and you are just running a basic internally gated setup on a stock exhaust manifold - do you not find it strange that someone has claimed that GT2530s on an RB26 is more responsive than a GT35R on an RB30?

I understand that what you say above is consistant with the popular belief, though 99.9% of people that say this stuff has never actually driven a GTR with a GT3582R, and wouldn't be surprised if a good percentage who repeat that rule haven't even driven a car with GT2530s to realise exactly how laggy they really are. For what its worth, the car with the GT2530s has to pretty much clip the 7500rpm limiter it has at the drags to launch without bogging - the car with the GT35R will smoke all four tires if it launches over 7000rpm, only needs 6000rpm to get a clean take off. The GTR running the GT3582R on the road feels better from 4000rpm than the GT2530s I have driven, I believe it has better overall response. I still maintain that rule of thumb comes from people comparing big singles which outflow the pants off a pair of GT2530s with GT2530s. Maybe I need to sort out a camera and make a response clip between a twin GT2530 and a single GT3582R and see if observers of the clip can pick which car is running which turbos

I'm fairly sure a pair of GT2530s will have more mass to accelerate than a single GT3582R.

I have disagreed with you before and you've made out like I didn't know what I was talking about, and I realise you have a LOT of experience with Skylines but I don't know what the full story is with what you are claiming above - maybe something was wrong with the RB30DET setup or maybe something else!? Either way, there is no way in hell a decent RB30DET setup with a .82 GT3582R turbo on it is laggier or less responsive than an RB26 with GT2530s. I've been in and/or driven all the setups you describe including an R32 GTR with a .82 GT3582R and the GT3582R on the RB30 monsters a GT2530 turbo'd RB26 everywhere. If you rolled both setups side by side from 2500rpm in 3rd gear the RB30DET / GT3582R car would be gone by the time the RB26/GT2530s was starting to think about getting serious. Its been a while, but the way I remember it the GT2530s did seem to "windmill" a little happier than the GT35R on an RB26 at driving around town speeds but as soon as you started getting into it the thing would charge into life and get out of dodge. I swear than the GT35R on the R32 GTR I have driven is the least laggy near 350-400wkw setup I have driven overall. This isn't the best comparison but it will give an idea - the plot from two cars tune on hub dynos, the one with the GT3582R (the one the dyno plot is actually for) is running .82 a/r turbine housing and the run was started at 3600rpm. 4WD was used for the run, and the car was running 20psi with Tomei 260deg cams. The blue line I overlapped from another mate's GTR which was running more mild (possibly stock?) cams on 22psi with the fuse pulled - running straight RWD for the dyno run. The GT2530's setup was started at 2000rpm, giving a little more time to get the turbo up to speed. Probably worth a mention as both the GT3582R and the GT2530 runs were done with quite quick "ramp rates".

Very nice - look forward to seeing how this comes out. Are 272s big enough for an 850hp odd turbo?

Awesome, congrats on the buy Go to photobucket.com, look for something like "join" and click that, follow the instructions and away you go. Its very easy to join and use and costs nothing.

I have a larger Garrett GT3076R with a .82a/r turbine housing and the only thing making my car not great for doing that kind of stuff is the clutch I use. A GT2835 would be absolutely fine for daily driving, I'd say it'd be nicer to drive than the stock turbo which is an annoying POS to drive with its irritating hiss and complete inability to make any real torque or power despite the fact.

Yeah well fortunately mine is tuned at a pretty safe ~11.6:1 on BP98 so what keeps me happy on "normal" fuel keeps me well well entertained with E10 in there. I am pretty tempted to try a back to back dyno comparison with 98RON E10 and conventional 98 actually, I'm adamant there is a reasonable difference.

Very nice! I had considered the GT2835 as well and figured it'd be much like you report, good to hear they are still a sweet turbo. Definitely would be my choice over a GT-RS - though the GT3076R definitely keeps those who are a little more greedy happy haha

OK I tried 20litres of E10 (10% ethanol, 98RON rated Mobil fuel) in my car and the bloody thing changed its behaviour! I was somewhat shocked that such a low %age mix would, but it most definitely does. Its enough of a change to trigger me into coming on here to ask - is it safe to use on a Skyline?? I have the technology to check the tune etc - but there is no where that I have found to verify if Skylines (R33 GTS-25t in my case) are sweet to use with it. Thoughts? Have anyone here used it on their Skyline for any length of time? I love the way the car reacts to the stuff and if I can keep using it, sweet!

I didn't want to assume anything - figured people in Oz would be more savvy to the whole story so thought I'd at least link to the thread. I had thought it had been destickered so thought it couple possibly be an old pic, but would rather say - just in case.

Interesting thread popped up on Fullboost... http://fullboost.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=6563

Damn stunning effort!! Very very cool, well done again!

Yep, sure. Faster than every production GTR up till the R35 - can't imagine what you think of them!

I am reasonably sure that the RB20 turbo has a vacuum line off the comp housing and I think the RB25 one is off the intake piping near the throttle body, something like that. Been years since I've played with either running an OEM turbo

There is only so far you can go NA, but the trick with the Honda motor is if it happens to be more powerful NA - what happens when a tuner puts a couple of turbos on them?? The C32A motors have seen 2000hp with turbos bolted onto the side of them. Given the NSXs were quicker than the GTRs with the same amount of cylinders, it will be interesting to see what happens when they go V10 - I think the GTR will be a hard act to follow but Honda have done it before. They DO go for a lot more money, but tend to stick to the more exotic end of the spectrum... not sure about in Oz but in NZ first gen NSXs can still command as much as R34 GTRs so they've got something right. For what its worth if I had a million and were going to waste some on a car it'd (depending on what the Honda comes out like) be the GTR, but don't sell them short - they build a fine car and at the end of the day if they can build something that sells for the price of a 911 Turbo which punches harder than a Lambo while being a fully functional reliable economical street car with the "mojo" of having a high revving NA V10 all the power to them.

Yeah the GT4202R is on a full weight R34 GTR that has only done one run down the 1/4 which was far from clean and did a 9 "off the trailer" with an H-pattern box. It will go faster.... What do you mean by "sound awesome", the concept or the actual sound of them?? If you mean the whistle, GT40, GT42, GT45 etcs all have the same kind of sound due to the anti-surge compressor housings As alternatives I believe a Turbonetics T76 or GTK1000 are in the same territory, as with Trust T88. All the typical 1000hp beasts. There is a really rare IHI RX8 for sale in NZ at the moment, I believe 1200hp rated... could go for that and be one of very very few. Unfortunately you'll never get a straight out answer on what exactly to expect, as I for one know of no one aside from maybe Indy race cars which have used them. Here is the R34 with the GT42R doing its run to get an idea of what kind of ride you could be in for:

All the turbos he mentioned are much bigger than a T04Z, I suspect he is shooting for a different target to what your T04Z would. Here is a dyno plot from an R34 GTR running a GT4202R on an RB30DET (cammed 26 head):

Not sure who you are directing those questions at, but all the GT35R turbine housings are interchangeable. You can go to the 1.06 or the twin scroll, however with the twin scroll housing you'd want to change your manifold to make best use of it. In terms of power, going by the fact that the 1bar and 1.4bar tunes on the GTR are a real similar shape it doesn't look like its showing the initial hints that the turbo is falling over yet so we have hopes it will crack the 400wkw mark with the .82a/r on pump gas however we'll just wait and see. Here is a snip of the dyno plot the tune from the last engine configuration:

In NZ the laws are a lot looser than in Oz, we have people running around with GT45Rs on high mount manifolds and all sorts of crazy stuff - a high mount GT4088R replacing a high mount GT3582R isn't going to make that much of a huge difference I don't think Just to clarify, you haven't made any thumb sucks about how much power you think the GT4088R would make or any explanation if or why you are suggesting alternatives to going that way - do you think its a bad idea?? I know the 1.06a/r flows a fair bit better than the .82a/r GT35 turbine housing but I'm thinking we could be running the risk of running out of compressor as well which would dampen things a bit. The plan is in the next month to completely max out the GT35R and at that stage we'll have a bit more of an idea of what it can give, and that should indicate whether 1.06a/r would be a good idea though at this stage looking at maps etc it looks to me like the GT35R is starting to run out of motivation a bit already. The car isn't just for going fast, the guy would like the shock factor of seeing a large turbo sitting in there - and it would be particularly nice if there is a large looking turbo in there that makes big power and isn't aweful compared to the likes of a pair of GT2530s etc. The GT3582R is a lot nicer to drive on the road than GT2530s/GT2860-5s so the hope is a GT4088R might bring it up to the same as if not at worst a little laggier than the twins. I have heard comments (potentially unfounded, but) that the 1.06a/r GT3582R is hardly any better at spooling than a TS .9x GT4088R... any thoughts?

Cheers Disco, again - I understand the benefits to twin scroll and its one of the reasons I have been bandying the GT40R I am not new to quick GTRs and know the common combinations, part of the exercise here is to do it a different way but hopefully have it still done well but I just wanted to make sure the GT40R itself is really the way to go, and get an idea of the feel etc. To give you an idea, the motor is being built with the intention of sustaining well into the 8000rpm area - its previous engine build was running a .82a/r GT3582R which ran 372kw @ wheels at a bit over 7500rpm and in doing so has already matched power and out done in spool a few GT2530 GTRs on the same boost etc which we consider a successful "responsive 600hp on a single" type setup, As I mentioned earlier in the thread (to avoid dyno debates) the plan is to get a solid 10s street car. I also mentioned it would be nice to pass 450kw @ hubs on a Dynapack.

Have a look around for GT2871R results as well, or HKS GT-RS ones as they're pretty much what "2560-10s" are. Dirtgarage on this forum is one such chap running twin GT-RSs.