Sydneykid

Toyota shift logic is not the same as Nissans, not as good either

Got a timeslip, I like to see the 60' and 1000' times and speed

That explains the :birdie: cack on your shoulder :jk:

Ben's R34 GTT with a GCG supplied GT3040, ET 11.9 with a 1.9 for 60' and 120 mhp at Heathcote on Nittos.

Adelaide, the guys were there a couple of weeks ago, but I didn't go, too much work. I think we are there about the same time next year, the calendar isn't finalised yet though. Maybe we go to Mallala twice next year as the Improved Production Nationals are on there. Don't underestimate the autos on the track, the Tilley brothers used to run a couple of Chrysler products in Appendix J with the push button 3 speed auto. I can't say as I ever saw them loose a drag to the first corner. High rpm stall converters and tightly locked autos with push button sellection, make sure the power band of the engine suites the gearing. (Just in case Steve-SST is reading this), their engines made plenty of power, they have a Dyno Dynamics dyno in house. It doesn't run Shoot Out mode, but it never stopped their cars from winning races.

The R200 diff is LEGENDARY

Change the auto box, sure. But 2 of 3 those cars run totally standard drivetrains from the tailshaft back. That's very, very rare in a manual, the shock from the mega clutch that you have to run, coupled with the sticky track and tyres, rips the shoot out of driveshafts, uni's etc. Never seen a diff break though, damn tough those things, not called the "Japanese 9 inch" for nothing. .

Have I read this right, Paul is not going to drive it? :headspin:

Exactly, it won't be happening to you.

I have 3 cars with forged pistons and none of them "slap", it is simply a matter of setting the clearances to suite. I suggest a long talk with "the family friend" should kill off that myth.

It depends on the set up, I have seen 2 X auto 2wd Skylines run 9's and 1 X auto 2wd Skyline run an 8, but I have never seen a manual 2wd Skyline get under a 10. If I was building a 2wd Skyline drag car I would build an auto every single time. But that doesn't interest me, so it's manuals for circuit racing everytime. For towing or driving in traffic the Stagea auto is hard to beat. As usual, it's horses for courses

Yep that's the right question, but it is only relevant if the base diameters are different. Then I will compare the difference in base diameters with the oil flow ports overlap. If the base diameter is larger than the ports allow then that's a problem. But if the base diameters are the same its irrelevant. Yep, but it is a very very small amount. Maybe enough to make the idle a little lumpy but not enough to kill it. More like 250 (hydraulic cam) versus 260 degrees (solid cam). If it is 50 degees then yes it would, if it is 10 degrees then no it wouldn't. As lukevl will tell you, cams are not my specialty. But despite what the cam doctors of the world tell you, they are really only a stick with bumps on it. They simply go round and round, turning rotation into up and down. Like a girl I knew once :headspin:

You know that won't prove anything don't you? If I knew your were coming to MY (fictional) dyno shop to compare results and if I was a devious person, there are a few things I wouldn't do. I would simply not have a cup of coffee while dyno'ing YOUR car. Or I could remove the weight off the load cell while dyno'ing YOUR car. Or I wouldn't fill the tank of YOUR car with Turbomax. Or I wouldn't cover the intercooler and pipes with dry ice on YOUR car. Or......... well you get the drift. Most of which goes totally against the Dyno Dynamics Shootout Code of Conduct and I know no self respecting Shootineer would ever do those sorts of things. BTW. Turbomax, dry ice and a few other tricks are OK for some dyno comps. Before Steve blows his stack, I am NOT NOT NOT saying that SST does any of this. I am merely pointing out some of the stuff that I have personally seen happen in SYDNEY and MELBOURNE. That's why DD came up with Shoot Out Mode software and the Code of Conduct. So consumers could go to an accredited dyno operator and know that the results are true. Then go to another accredited dyno operator and get exactly the same results, regardless of atmospheric conditions. By making this big effort, DD prove that they know there are crooks out there. Why did DD go to this much trouble? Well my understanding is they got sick and tired of people complaining about inconsistent results from Dyno Dynamics dynos. You know the story, " I got 2000 rwkw at dyno ABC, I did some work to get an extra 500 kw and went to dyno XYZ and only got 200 kw extra. So Dyno Dynamics dynos are crap". DD knows full well that some dyno operators weren't straight and Shoot Out Mode fixes their "software" cheating and the Code of Conduct fixes the "hardware" cheating. Of course they charge for the software and accreditation, so they make some money too. I use the dyno a a tool for tuning and testing, whether it shows true power or not I don't really give a shooot. As long as it is consistent. The result I am looking for is the single fastest lap time the car can do and (more importantly) how fast it does the full race distance. The chequered flag is my target, if I do it with 200 kw or 2,000 kw I don't care.

As I posted above, I don't know. I am going to compare a couple of sets that I have with standard RB20 cams. The only thing I am interested in is their base diameter. One pair are late R32 and the other set is R34. The R34's should be in the machine shop early next week. I also have a few sets of aftermarket RB26 cams, one set of Jun, two sets of HKS and one set of Tomei. I will publish what I find.

That is the best option up to the limit of the standard internals (~450 bhp).

Hi guys, here is one I prepared earlier using an example of 4 intercooler setups and pipework we have actually used; 1. R33 GTST Standard Intercooler and standard R32 GTST pipework 150 rwkw = 27 lbs of air per min @ 13 litres of i/c & pipework 2. Supra Intercooler and matching 63mm pipework 180 rwkw = 30 lbs of air per min @ 15 litres of i/c & pipework 3. Standard GTR GTR and 63/75mm pipework 250 rwkw = 40 lbs of air per min @ 21 litres of i/c & pipework 4. Greddy 600 X 300 X 115 and 80 mm pipework 400 rwkw = 60 lbs of air per min @ 28 litres of i/c & pipework If you look at the numbers you can see that the rate of air flow and the volume of I/C and pipework have a fixed relationship (27 = 13 , 30 = 15 , 40 = 21 , 60 = 28). This is not an accident, I designed it that way. The reason is I wanted to keep the throttle response as close what it was when the car had 150 rwkw, because I though that was very nice response. The theory I followed was, the more power the engine produces the more air it needs. Thus if I keep the increase in the volume of air inside the inlet system in the same proportion as the power increase, then the throttle response should stay the same. This is based on the engine using the air in the same time frame. So when people say they fitted a FMIC and have not noticed any less throttle response, my response would be, that is what I would expect. As long as they went from 150 rwkw to 180 rwkw. On the other hand, if there was no power increase then it would be simply physically impossible for there to be no decrease in throttle response. The problem of poor throttle response arrises when you have a 220 rwkw engine with a 28 litre inlet system. This is something I see way to often. Hope that adds to this interesting thread.

There are 48 teeth on RB camshaft pulleys, meaning 7.5 degrees per tooth of camshaft rotation. So that's 15 degrees of crankshaft rotation. One tooth out would turn the 8 degrees advanced into 7 degrees retarded. Possible....

********Warning, this is a long post, read it at your peril.********* Hi Luke, I have been staying out of this up to now because I have successfully done the GTR cams in RB20 more than once. So I KNOW it works. What I am going to do in this post is use plain English, I am going to avoid technical jargon as much as I possibly can. That way the non tech heads can read it and understand. The Camdoc output shows the difference in ramp which I would expect (and have seen many times before). On a "solid" camshaft you have to have a “gentle” ramp, particularly on opening. If you don't have a “gentle” ramp it means the tappets are noisy as they go from zero lift to some lift very quickly. This makes noise (tappet rattle) and the car manufacturers don't want this, so they have a “gentle” start to the valve opening. If you use a "hydraulic” camshaft with “solid” followers you get this knocking at initial valve opening as there is no “gentle” ramp. This also wears out the camshaft and the follower. I never use a “hydraulic” camshaft with “solid” followers for this reason. If you look at the Camdoc output you will see that the closing ramps are both pretty much the same (ie; the “hydraulic” has a gentle ramp on closing, this is the same as the “solid” camshaft). This is what you would expect, you don’t want the valve slamming into the seat too fast/hard. This would break a valve head off and/or wear out the valve seats. The hydraulic and the solid followers act exactly the same at this point. The hydraulic follower is full of oil and sealed off from the oil supply galleries. Oil (being a liquid) is incompressible, so it acts exactly the same as a solid follower would. But this is NOT the same as using a “solid” camshaft with “hydraulic” followers, the “gentle” ramp is there, so there is no noise or wear. It doesn’t have to be there but it makes no difference if it is. So having gotten rid of ramp as a possible reason, let’s look at another…. Both camshafts have ZERO lift at some point (in fact many degrees of crankshaft rotation). This gives the oil time to be “squeezed” out of the follower while it is lined up with the oil gallery. The “squeezing” is done by the valve spring, if the valve isn’t fully closed, the valve spring “pushes” against the follower and forces the oil out of the follower until the valve closes. No more spring pressure, so no more oil is squeezed out of the follower. That’s how hydraulic followers run with zero clearance, hot or cold. So I don’t give a rats arse about the ramp, that is too late in the cycle to make any difference as to whether or not the valves are closed at zero lift. This now leaves only one possibility………….. I have checked back on the RB20’s I have done with RB26 camshafts. I have not done an RB20 upgrade used R34 GTR cams, I have a top end on the way that I will try shortly, but not as yet. I have done 2 with early (1989) GTR camshafts, these are definite I removed them from the engines myself. One of these I was converted to solid followers using GTR valve springs but not by me. I have done one other with what I was told where R33 GTR camshafts, but I didn’t remove them from the engine so I can not be sure. What I did do was check the lift, as it is the easiest to do confirm that I was being sold GTR cams. This would not confirm which model of GTR, they might have been R32. It may be possible that later model GTR camshafts have a larger base diameter, this doesn’t affect timing or lift. But what it could do is push the followers open and past the oil gallery. This means they would be “solid” all the time because they could not bleed off the oil to give clearance. Draining the follower before installing the camshafts would have no effect on this problem. In fact it would create another, as no oil would flow into the follower if the gallery didn’t line up ie; they would rattle their heads off. There is one other related possibility, the oil gallery lines up with the follower but the base diameter of the camshaft is so great that, even with all of the oil out, there is still no clearance and the valves stay open. Where do I go from here, well I am going to measure the base diameter of some GTR camshafts. I have a late (1993) R32 pair of cams and an R34 pair on the way. I will compare that with the base diameter of a pair of RB20 camshafts. If there is a large enough difference to cause this problem I will post it up. Otherwise I can only say it is an “installation” problem. If the R34 GTR cams come up OK in the base diameter test, I am going to install them in an RB20 and take pictures of what I do. Then post them, so anyone can copy the process. Hope that makes some sense, so Luke can say “f**k he’s right again”.

OK let's flesh this out a bit. What you are saying is if I use a plumb back BOV the air temp will be lower coming out of the BOV (and therefore going back into the inlet stream) than the ambient air temp. So if I have a 25 degree day The turbo heats the air up to say 80 degrees (not unusual) The 70% efficient intercooler drops the air temp to 41 degrees (a good effort) Then the expansion of the air as it exits the BOV drops that temp down from 41 degrees to below 25 degrees. Have I got it right?

Ring your local Kings agent and ask them. It is illegal in most places to have loose springs, they must be captive at all times. Is it both front and rear?

That's right, the flange on the back of the turbine cover bolts on. You simply remove it and have the dump made up to suite the bolt pattern on the turbine cover. If I remember rightly it is the "standard" Nissan 5 bolt pattern anyway. It would pay to check it though. I use a piece of carboard, stick it up to the bolt paterns and poke holes in it to line up with the bolt holes. Wander along to your local exhauts shop and compare the carboard with the "standard" 5 bolt flange. Hope that helps

Some dyno operators always have a cup of coffee when they tune :wassup:

OK I give up, I have looked at every non WA dyno graph in this thread and can't find a question to ask. BMan's AT 25 degrees and IT 31 degrees, that's about what I would expect to see. Even Needs Speed has similar temps (AT 24 & IT 31), I don't understand why it's not the same as the other WA dyno graphs? Did you run it with the bonnet up? :confused:

What you are describing is heat soak of the intercooler core. The core starts off cold and removes heat from the inlet air stream. This happens until the intercooler core itself gets hot and there is insufficient ambient air passing through it to cool the core down. Stick a larger intercooler on and it simply takes longer to get heat soak. The idea being that, if the intercooler is large enough, you will have to back off and thus let the core cool down ready to soak up some more heat next time you need it. Plus a larger intercooler has more internal surface area to absorb heat from the inlet air and larger external surface area to pass this heat onto the ambient air. A better way to test your theory would to measure the temperature at the turbo inlet and outlet and compare that to the ambient temperature. Interesting thread this one

I checked my posts and I didn't say inflamatory stuff like...... So let's see I got called, 1. under achieving knocker 2. dumber over there 3. infamous 4. coward 5. bullshitter 6. credit taker Where do you two get off saying Check my posts, you will find I started NOTHING and INSULTED no one. :angel: Have a nice day :shake: :