NZM.031

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo gooodie.... here we go again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeehaw! i think times have changed alot that is all... how good were the computers back in 1987 and 88?? nowhere near as good as they are now.. the old commodore 64 was great... but it wasnt that great. i think what ash is getting at what may have taken someone hours of mockups and planning and sketching and testing and building and calculations and scrapping and starting all over again, could now possibly be done in 30min by some geek wierdo kid and a cad program.. by knowing all the characteristics of the engine, aka, head flow, turbo speed and flow, cooler flow, swept volume, rpm, you could work out the pulse rate in the manifold and change the tube diameter, length or style to suit, you could knock it up on the pc and have a working picture before even thinking about picking up some steel.. with all the automated benders and welders that are of the time (hks' exhaust factory comes to mind), you may not even have to pick up a piece of steel. look at american chopper... pooly can knock up a wheel sketch on his program, press enter, and the cnc machine starts going bezerk, 15 min later a perfectly cut wheel emerges and he hasnt even left his computer... it takes him longer to walk to the cnc machine than it does to cut the custom one off wheel... apart from the creativity time, materials, and machine expenses, that wheel, that custom, one of a kind wheel, costs no more than any other wheel, it can be replicated over and over again at the touch of a button. what would be great to see is a reciept from the manifold builder... actually i just had a thought.... i wonder if race cars are like weddings... everything is triple the price, for no reason other than people will pay it.

is there any structural loss wih removing door material?? to the door itself, like sagging etc. i cant imagine so as they are pillarless, and with the cage, you should be able to run without doors. wrx 5000 series rotors are 5.8kg each. imagine skylines the same.

can i have them?? please?? haha... might have to put up for a swapsie. dont spose gtr doors are any lighter??

if you were getting down to that sort of weight, the standard brakes would near do the job with good pads and rotors... any more brakes and youd just lock up.. are the dba 5000 alloy hat rotors much lighter than teh stockers?? btw, gtst seats are 20kg a piece. weighed mine on the weekend. can anyome confirm for real about the early and late doors being 10kg different?? does anyone know why?? mine is a 94 model and they are heavy... i was gonna take to em with the grinder but if i can just get early model doors that would be sweet.

genuine afm is about $1000 so id imagine that is the right price for a genuine one.

^^^^ you need plus 25mm bolt ons for those bad boys on your 31.

the problem with that though is playing with the hoses each service, will overtime cause new problems to arrise.. worn threads, loose fittings, rounding fittings etc. maybe later down the track, get a hose dude, enzed, link, etc... to put a drain tap in one of the hoses, that way your not touching the fittings all the time and if it starts to leak, it can be removed or replaced in minutes without requiring a new hose to be made, a new oil cooler or a new adaptor.

very nice harry..... whats it for??

this man..... he knows.

damn that would be some epic casting mould!

i thought the sand way was just another form of mandrel bending?? i thought mandrel bending was any form of bending keeping the same diameter??

hahaha.... this man..... he knows!!

i completly agree, this one was simple compared to the rb20 will be.. but its not impossible and just takes time and patience... my build plan is 3 years, so ive got nothing but time. what were your findings on it roy?? is it not worth doing from a power and response point or expense point?? farked if i know... it was an on & off type thing.. possibly took a year just to get the exhaust to where it is now... its a very slow going project.. has been 15 yrs in the build already. the exhaust has stayed like that for probably close to 6 years. the tubes are all one piece yes from flange to collector .. thin stainless and very easy to bend... but not strong enough to hold 6kg off the end of it.. the collector will be different yes.. i honestly dont know when ill attack it... the engine plan is in the very distant future... but i do want to mount it lower and further back, i will do my best to give this manifold a red hot go... i have the time, i have the facilities, i know people with the know how, so i will keep you updated.. but dont expect anything in the next year sorry any pics you could get for me would be greatly appreciated, if you want, make a post in my build thread so i wont forget and know where to find you . cheers Linton

these are some pics from the old boys gt40, we figured out were the collectors had to be, tacked them in place with a rod, mocked up the pipes using tacked press bends of mild steel tube, then when it was all good, mandrel bent each individual tube out of thin stainless tube to replicate the mocked up tube, sent them away for coating, then tacked them in place on the flange, and then went round and completed the welding, cleaned up the collectors with a die grinder. they arent quite finished yet though. we did the longest tube first, then used the length of that to do the other ones at equal length.

roy, you say that like its impossible to mandrel bend a tube of steel.. and many steels have changed properties over the years to make them lighter, stronger, more malliable, stiffer, heat resistent, whatever. im just waiting on the old boy to send me pics of his extractors which he and i made for his car and i will show you it can be done. challenge accepted fellas... im going to make my own exhaust manifold for my rb20.. when my car hits the ground in 2 or 3 years time, look out for the manifold.

i wasnt offering anything, so theres nothing for you to take me up on, i never said it was easy, i never said i wanted to make one to sell, what is your point about the welds?? i merely said, if you have access to the materials, which i was a smart arse about, and access to the equipment, you too can make one just like it. i can weld pieces together if i so wish, or i can mandrel bend the tubes if i so wish. if i was to sell it, it would depend how many hours i put into it.. and whether i could put a price on those hours.. like the gibson ones, they are worth $9000 to whoever owns it, and whoever wishes to pay that for them. i could make one that could be priceless, meaning i wouldnt part with it for any amount of money. my whole point relates to ash's initial point... its only worth what someone will pay for it,.. what one man knows, another man can learn, its not rocket science, its making equal length tubes out of steel and welding them to 2 flanges.. its labour intensive and mind boggling, yes, but its not unachievable if you apply yourself to it and it can be done, it can be replicated, and it can possibly be made better. its not moon metal.

yeh talking about the same thing... im just being smart that i know someone who has a bunch of manifold tubing laying around... used it to make extractors for his gt40 replica... lotsa pipe work involved in that, and he made 2 sets as he wasnt happy with the first set..

diffuser looks great.. you should get some of the side canards or the carbon side skirt lips like on the blue bodyform GTR to match... not the GTR but you get the idea.

its all about who you know and what they've got laying around in their workshop i couldve said a carton instead of $200 and id still be gettin it for less than that. haha.

yeh they a like an iPhone... at first they are rare and awesome, truly unique that everyone desires... then everyone jumps on the bandwagon and gets their hands on one and they lose appeal. fantastic engine maybe.... worthy of respect... hardly.

oh boy.... i thought i was going to be in for a quiet day at work... ash is fired up now so this could be good... let the internet war begin!! *sits back with coffee and biscuits* i can see what ash is getting at... with $200 dollars of metal and some time spent cutting and welding, i can reproduce a gms style exhaust in my garage, costing nothing but time and outlay for the metal.. back in those days, welders were not as advanced, turbo manifolds not as advanced, steel not as advanced, it was all trial and error and lots of r&d... but by todays standards its border line of crap... an original EM is only worth anything to a gms rb20 owner... now days you can make one on a cad program and do all the calculations before even touching a piece of steel. the gms GTR's cost $600000 per car, the rb26's in the gtr's cost $100000 to build... and they carried a few spare engines in the truck.. i think the 18" lightweight magnesium wheels were something ridiculous like $20000 each (im not sure on that, ill find out) no other car then used 18" wheels so they had to be developed. i imagine the cost of the r31s would be half that... so $300000, i dont doubt the cost of the manifold for the rb20's as they were a relativley new engine at the time, and the technology starts at the race cars and works down the line. noone had done them to that level before, so everything was new and custom. the fact the they basically redesigned the heads and blocks could be $20000 right there.. then custom rods and pistons, solid heads, big cams, all stuff that had never been done before at that time.. thanks to their R&D, we found out that the rb20 (while i love them) is no comparison to the rb26 or rb25. i personally wouldnt pay more then $1500 for any exhaust manifold... as id rather spend that on a decent welder and make my own, using trial and error and learning things along the way. feel free to flame me or pick any indescrepencies (theres one right there).. thats what the internet is for.

yeh but who wants a 30/26?? they are lame and unoriginal... they a fad for the moment, like skinny jeans and vests whats next? using a patrol 4.2L block with 26 head?? rb20's rock..

why is it that the cusco tension rod for an r32 is near double that for an s13?? they are identical., nothing different or special.. maybe a small size difference but surely it cant cost any more to produce..

apparantly (meaning i actually have no idea) this bad boy does a 1:1.7 around tsukuba weighs just over 1000kg, rb25 turbo on rb20, 310ps. there is more info around page 140ish in the r32 photography section.

i know you said crew gear....i mean crew... as in crew people that wear the crew gear. haha. it has to be taken into account when talking about weights... as when your using the weight that is the car and crew gear... theres an extra blob sitting in the rhs that can add anywhere from 60kg to 120kg. sometimes theres 2 blobs. so your car is 1225 dry... 1280 wet... how much with you and your navigator slinging around corners??