Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

' date='11 May 2006, 07:38 PM' post='2159173']

thanks for the reply sk :)

i was under the impression that the apexi RX6 (IHI) was only oil cooled being plain bearing ?

so i am under the impression that all EVO which would be running Mitsubishi turbos would then be plain bearing yes?

Also can't it be said that because more than one main supply is using plain bearing turbos, that the tech behide them is fairly good and that they can match ball bearing? From a design point of view wouldnt the company choose the option that produces the best result at the best price.

So if the lose from using plain bearing is say 5% but the price saving is 20% then i dont see plain bearing being that bad in a price/performace comparisons to ball bearing?

As with all things mechanical, there are patents and royalties involved. Some things are not for sale at any price, it's about retaining ones competitive edge gained from your own in house R&D.

Personally I can't put a price (or a %) on response, poor response simply takes all of the enjoyment out of driving a car for me. I hate dowey cars, slow throttle response like vague steering and a lack of tactile feedback they all turn me off driving a car real fast.

>_< cheers :angry:

  • Replies 264
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Its just so hard to decide!!! Spend 1k or 2k?? ie plain bearing or ball bearing.

I still think of Cost of Ownership, so if you're saying Gary that there is extra maintnenace involved in the life of using a plain bearing turbo (such as oil changes every 2500kms instead of 5000kms etc) then this obviously adds to that cost, over time.

Its all so hard when you're on a budget!!!

On a side note, what sort of 'safe' psi can a standard 'unopened' Rb25det engine take with a nice highflowing turbo? More than 1bar?

On a side note, what sort of 'safe' psi can a standard 'unopened' Rb25det engine take with a nice highflowing turbo? More than 1bar?

Im running at least 1.3 bar and sometimes 1.4 bar on my internally unopened RB25DET

I think everyone's getting a little too riled up here, I don't think SK and PaulR33 are meaning to say that this is a bad turbo by any means, its just a case of you get what you pay for.

I'm not trying to shut Slide down or his product, i'm sure its very good value for money and it sounds like it is.

Its just that when you think about building an overall package, depending on what you're aiming for the car to achieve, its best to choose the turbo suitable for that application.

As has been said her a few times, Garret is a huge company that has been in the turbocharging game for a long time, when you're buying a turbo from them, you're not just buying some bits of metal, you're buying the R&D as well, so you'd expect the turbo to spool faster, be more efficient and have a longer life.

If I were thinking of upgrading my turbo (and i'm not just yet), the first thing i'd be doing is ringing Garret and talking to them about what I want my car to aim for (power wise, response wise, track, drift, qtr street etc) and build a whole package around it with the correct ancillaries (i'm sure I spelt that wrong) like intercooler, suspension, management, fuel issues etc.

Hmm i'm not sure if I made any point here, i'm not on any side, i'm just giving my 2c I guess.

This is an interesting thread, I don't believe that is it out of place to compare the plain bearing turbo in this discussion with alternative ball bearing turbos. If I was buying a turbo I would most certainly like to know what I am missing out on, not simply what I am getting.

Garrett make both ball bearing and plain bearing turbos and there is a considerable price difference. In many cases they sell the same compressor and turbine specs with plain bearing or ball bearing cores. So Garrett are constantly being asked to justify the extra cost of buying a ball bearing turbo for its superior performance.

Some time ago, in answer to these value for money questions, Garrrett carried out controlled testing of the same compressor and turbine specs with plain bearing and ball bearing cores. This was done on a 2 litre engine and the test was of response to throttle imputs. The idea was to open the throttle at 2,000 rpm and measure how long it took for various shaft rpm increases. This is the published result;

gallery_1903_124_17379.jpg

As you can see from the graph, it takes the plain bearing turbo 2 seconds to catch up to the shaft speed. Now, 2 seconds is a life time when you want/need/expect good throttle response. At many places on the curve you are looking at ~30% longer for the plain bearing turbo to gain speed.

You make up your own mind as to whether or not this is important to you.

:) cheers :D

PS; I have no turbos to sell, our cars have a variety of turbos on them, I use whatever will do the job and at the same time give value for money.

I've spoken to Aaron in depth about his turbos... and i'm keen to try a hiflow rebuild to replace my fooked turbo on my R33.

Bolt on performance upgrade, for only $860 delivered to my door... nothing to loose

I would like to see how these turbo's perfrom.

Also they claim to be Garett and Biaggio combined. Which part is what???

Biaggio compressures and wheels and garret bearing core???

Also we all know you get what you pay for, and as it stands Biaggio is a large manufacturer in Spain, that supplies a considerable number of OEM manufacturers.

I would like ot know what the BB version of the turbo would be both price and performance wise??? And see it compared to a comparable Garrett product!!

Stan,

I am often in Sydney, mostly with mates for such events as the Evo Forums Wakefield track day, but I will message you should the offer still be open.

Also I will have a chat to Slide via PM.

Cheers

Neill

P.S. No one should discount this product until proven otherwise, the KKR turbo's were mocked repeatedly, now they have partly proven themselves, some keyboard mechanics should shut the f**k up

P.S. No one should discount this product until proven otherwise, the KKR turbo's were mocked repeatedly, now they have partly proven themselves, some keyboard mechanics should shut the f**k up

Who would that be? SK? or PaulR33? I wouldn't be calling them keyboard mechanics....

The purpose of this post and forum is to promote open discussion and information, from all sides.

I havent heard anyone say that these turbos were shit, all I've heard is people's opinions, own trials and information they've provided, ultimately it is each persons own choice to choice their turbo for their own uses.

If anything I'd say most people have had positive feedback, and that's a good thing.

  • 2 weeks later...

Well the turbo is on my car now, it's done 1000kms and the bearing is run-in nicely, boost response is extremely good. It's never going to be as good as the stock 'toy' turbo I took off, but the extra oomph makes up for any low-end response. Spooling to 10psi at 3000rpm is good enough for me anyway, I'm more than happy with it :(

Well the turbo is on my car now, it's done 1000kms and the bearing is run-in nicely, boost response is extremely good. It's never going to be as good as the stock 'toy' turbo I took off, but the extra oomph makes up for any low-end response. Spooling to 10psi at 3000rpm is good enough for me anyway, I'm more than happy with it :D

Sounds good mate just a few questions. What mods do you have? What boost you running? What is your power output

thanks for the review

Don't have a final power output until I get a full tune on the dyno...feels quicker than before and I had 175rwkw

I've got a full CES turbo-back, front-mount, daughterboard ECU (to be tuned), standard GTR fuel reg and GTR fuel pump...only on 10psi at the moment...will wind the turbo out a bit more when it's tuned, even more when I get some new injectors.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Well, I can recommend the partial AV system translation CD I ordered from Car Audio Workshop in NZ. Whilst it didn't address the date issue, it has conveniently translated on-screen menu items into English, and now allows the GPS-received time to be offset in hours rather than minutes, so I can display Eastern Australian time accurately ( and bump it by another hour when daylight savings starts ).
    • Yuh, if it's 45°C outside, my car is driving in it.
    • I'd be curious to hear more. Otherwise, have you driven a modern x-trail? I wonder how it compares. Here in Australia they are/were popular for rentals and fleet vehicles. I have been in some and my impression was they are bad. But, this may have been very different in the 2000s at a good trim level. Twenty years is plenty of time to make the model worse. I do very much agree with the 2 silver cars in the garage approach. But, not driving because it's too hot would not leave a lot of time in the year for many Australians. I don't think you need to worry too much unless the car has actual issues with overheating. 
    • Back again. I returned to Japan in Jul/Aug to spend time with the car on my birthday and remind myself what all the sacrifice and compromise is for. It happened to line up with the monthly morning meet in Okutama, which I have been wanting to go to for a long time. It's a unique event at a unique spot with really rare, interesting, and quirky cars. It's where all the oldheads and OGs gather. The nighttime scene at DKF certainly has its place and should be experienced if you're into cars, but there's too much bad attention and negativity around it now. IMO the better time is Sunday morning at DKF or Okutama; it's more chill and relaxed. I'm glad I was finally able to go, but not sure it's worth the drive from all the way from Nagoya immediately the day before, unless I was already staying in Tokyo for the days right before the meet, because you have to wake up quite early to make it in time. Funnily enough though I didn't drive the car all that much this trip because it was just too damn hot. While there were zero issues and running temps were nominal and the A/C was strong, RBs already run crazy hot as it is. Sure, it took it all like a champ but something about driving these cars in the ridiculous heat/humidity bothers me and makes me feel like I'm asking too much of it. I'm just me being weird and treating the car like a living thing with feelings; I'm mechanically sympathetic to a fault. Instead I was mainly driving something else around - a KX4(silver) 2001 X-Trail GT, that I acquired in May. There's a few different flavors to choose from with Xs, but visually it's the Nissan version of the Honda CR-V. Mechanically it's a whole different story as this, being the top-trim GT, has an SR20VET mated to a four-speed auto and full-time AWD! It was a very affordable buy in exceptional condition inside and out, with very low mileage...only 48k kms. Most likely it was owned by an older person who kept it garaged and well-maintained, so I'm really happy with how it all worked out. It literally needs zero attention at the moment, albeit except for some minor visual touch-ups. I wanted something quirky, interesting, and practical and for sure it handily delivers on all three of those aspects. I was immediately able to utilize the cargo and passenger capacity to its full extent. It's a lot of fun to drive and is quite punchy through 1st and 2nd. It's very unassuming -in the twisty bits it's a lot more composed than one would think at a glance- and it'll be even better once I get better tires on it(yes, it's an SUV but still a little boat-y for my liking). So...now I have two golden-era Nissans in silver. One sports car and one that does everything else; the perfect two-car solution I think👍 The rest of the trip...I was able to turn my stressed brain off and enjoy it, although I didn't quite get to do as much as I thought. I did some interesting things, met some interesting people, and happened into some interesting situations however, that's all for another post though only if people really want to know. Project-wise, I went back to Mine's again to discuss more plans and am hoping to wrap that up real soon; keep watching this space if that interests you. Additionally, while working in the tormenting sweatbox that is the warehouse, I was able to organize most of the myriad of parts that my friend is storing for me along with the cars, and the 34 has a nice little spot carved out for it: And since it can get so stupid hot in there, that made it all the more easy -after I was standing there looking at the car and said 'f**k it'- to finally remove all the damn gauges that have mostly been an eyesore all this time. Huzzah. The heat basically makes the adhesive backing on the gauge mounts more pliable to work with, so it was far less stressful getting this done. I didn't fully clean it up or chase the wiring though; that will happen once I have the car in closer possession. Another major reason to remove all that stuff is to give people less reasons to get in my car and steal s**t while it's being exported/imported when/if the time comes, which leads us to my next point... ...and that is even though it's time in Japan is technically almost up since it's a November car and the X would be coming in March, I'm still not entirely sure where my life and career is headed; I don't really know what the future looks like and where I'm going to end up. I feel there's a great deal of uncertainty with me and as a result of that, it feels like I'm at a crossroads moreso now than any point in my life thus far and there are some choices I need to make. Yes, I've had some years to consider things and prepare myself, however too much has happened in that time to maintain confidence and everything feels so up in the air; tenuous one might say. Simply put, there's just too much nonsense going on right now from multiple vectors. Admittedly, I'm struggling to stay in the game and keep my eyes on the prize. So much so in fact, that very recently I came the closest I ever have before to calling it quits outright; selling everything and moving on and not looking back. The astute among you will pick up on key subtext within this paragraph. In the meantime I've still managed to slowly acquire some final bits for the car, but it feels nice knowing there's not much left to get and I'm almost across that finish line; I have almost everything I'll ever want for my interpretation and expression on what it is I think an R34 should be. 'til later.
    • Thanks for that, hadn’t used my brain enough to think about that. 
×
×
  • Create New...