Anyone Have A Rb25 Highflow From "sliding Performance"?

[BHDave]

an rb20 with one of these turbo's, $28 boost controller, rechip, walbro pump, $30 air filter and $600 xforce exhaust system can be just as good and probably within 10-15rwkw of the same car using top of the line ecu, pump, exhaust, turbo, blah blah blah..

I think you'll find that cheap but well thought out upgrades will be within a bee's dick of a name brand car up to 200rwkw or so (talking peak power only here).

The difference will come when you start pushing further and the cheapie exhaust/intercooler/cat become restrictions. I dont think a highflow turbo, whether bb or bush, will be the restiction in this case until you are well into the 200's.

That said, haveing had similar peak rated turbo in both bush and bb on my current engine, the difference in transient response is chalk and cheese. Peak boost is around the same point but the bush turbo just doesn't give that little torque wave at 1/4 throttle like the bb does.

[mad082]

in other posts people have said that a safc will stop rich and retard mode, but it appears that satanic has a safc and still has this problem. so will a safc stop it or not.

[satanic]

In my instance no... I'm not going to speak for anyone else because I really don't know, just that in my instance the answer was no.

[Stel]

I put an SAFC on mine and it cleaned the AFR's alot.

Got from 187kw with close to 13 AFRs to 207kw with 11.4 AFRs.

Best $100 ive ever spent.

[Tangles]

In my instance no... I'm not going to speak for anyone else because I really don't know, just that in my instance the answer was no.

So, on a R34 ecu it may not, whereas on a R33 ecu it does (in my instance)

[JaFF]

Paul - you are right and wrong.

not everyone can afford big name turbo's from HKS or trust.

not everyone wants power and numbers like BUSTER.

not everyone has the knowledge and knowhow that SK has or the tools to do all the work.

not every car has ball bearing turbo's.

just to name a few cars that do without ball bearing turbo's and survive..

VL turbo. 80's car and still running.. some even on stock turbo.. and with no bov..

Liberty RS turbo's... I've seen cars with over 300,000kms on it on stock engine and stock turbo.

The cheapest I've seen ball bearing hi flow from GCG is $1700 for the 450 hp version.

you can buy 2 of these for that price.

he offers a 1 year warranty.

he is straight forward with what he is selling and what to expect.

as much as I'd like to play with the big boys and spend big money on my car habbit, I (and I'm sure a shit load of people on these forums) can't afford to do that.

just something to think about before jumping on the BB wagon.

I think that is completely wrong.

you can have cheap upgrades.

an rb20 with one of these turbo's, $28 boost controller, rechip, walbro pump, $30 air filter and $600 xforce exhaust system can be just as good and probably within 10-15rwkw of the same car using top of the line ecu, pump, exhaust, turbo, blah blah blah..

You might be in a different financial boat then me, but I just think that you need to consider the rest of the peeps

Totally agree with the above statement. This thread is about trying to find people WITH this turbo and their opinions on it. I'm pretty sure you don't have this turbo Paul so how is it your place to say if it's good or not. Sure BB turbos are superior but that isn't the topic of the thread. The people mainly drawn here would be people without the budget to buy a BB turbo. For under $1k and with 12 months warranty this turbo seems perfect for someone who wants improved performance over stock and doesn't want to spend 2k on a turbo alone.

[Tangles]

Totally agree with the above statement. This thread is about trying to find people WITH this turbo and their opinions on it. I'm pretty sure you don't have this turbo Paul so how is it your place to say if it's good or not. Sure BB turbos are superior but that isn't the topic of the thread. The people mainly drawn here would be people without the budget to buy a BB turbo. For under $1k and with 12 months warranty this turbo seems perfect for someone who wants improved performance over stock and doesn't want to spend 2k on a turbo alone.

But what is the cost of ownership?

ie if you replace it every 2 years or say 60000kms, but replace a GCG every 4 years or 120,000kms, then as at 4yrs the GCG is a better buy. However if you only replace the slide performance turbo after 4 years and a GCG req'd replacing after 4yrs of usage (same kms), then it IS a better buy.

Never forget the total cost of ownership ppls.

[mad082]

totally agree with JaFF. these turbo's would be especially good for someone who has a blown turbo on a car that they use as a daily driver and aren't after performance gains. you don't have to worry about having to spend big money on a turbo then possibly a computer just to drive to work. and you don't have to worry about buying a second hand turbo and having it die after 2 days if it had some underlying problem. you get a warranty and you can do it as a single item upgrade.

[Munna1]

in other posts people have said that a safc will stop rich and retard mode, but it appears that satanic has a safc and still has this problem. so will a safc stop it or not.

The SAFC will stop the rich and retard to a certain point as it only manipulates the air flow sensor to trick the ECU into thinking it getting more or less airflow than it actually is. Its fine to use with the standard turbo but once an aftermarket turbo is installed and airflow is greatly increased its best to go for a aftermarket ECU. As you may be out of the SAFC's range and other things need to be tuned changed like timing ect

[JaFF]

But what is the cost of ownership?

ie if you replace it every 2 years or say 60000kms, but replace a GCG every 4 years or 120,000kms, then as at 4yrs the GCG is a better buy. However if you only replace the slide performance turbo after 4 years and a GCG req'd replacing after 4yrs of usage (same kms), then it IS a better buy.

Never forget the total cost of ownership ppls.

Well I guess the only people who will know how long they are lasting is slide and people who own them.

I don't think anyway can guarentee the life span of a turbo but I havn't read anything that would suggest these turbos only last 60000 kms. Sure some people have pointed out that BB turbos are superior but a few people have stated they havn't had any problems with this turbo either.

I'm guessing the whole reason the person started this thread was to find out these sort of questions but I'm sure it wasn't meant to be a GCG vs slideperformance or BB Vs Journal thread.

[Tangles]

Well I guess the only people who will know how long they are lasting is slide and people who own them.

I don't think anyway can guarentee the life span of a turbo but I havn't read anything that would suggest these turbos only last 60000 kms. Sure some people have pointed out that BB turbos are superior but a few people have stated they havn't had any problems with this turbo either.

I'm guessing the whole reason the person started this thread was to find out these sort of questions but I'm sure it wasn't meant to be a GCG vs slideperformance or BB Vs Journal thread.

yah I know - didnt mean it in that context........... here at work I sell top furniture. Some chairs last 10yrs and cost $1000, other chairs cost $300 and last 2yrs...... Cost of Ownership is less over time for the higher quality goods. Its just something that I keep in mind.

[satanic]

I think Munna1 is on the money with the SAFC statement... we tried everything to boost my turbo past 11psi and the most we got was 11.2psi before the rich and retard thing started to happen.

Sucks not having the turbo do its thing to its potential! Ah well, not for long

[Slide]

What about lifespan??

How long would this $890-950 turbo last (kms?) when say left at 1bar boost on say a car like Stans? Id imagine a BB hiflow turbo would be good for 80000kms+, how about your model Slide?

As long as the feed of oil into the turbo is enough for the job it is doing then the turbo could theoretically live out the stock turbo.

With the oil lines increased in size and being water cooled aswell they will last a very long and fun giving time.

As an indication of abuse of these turbo's receive.....

Since the around September last year i have had this highflow in my car and there was not a night it wasnt glowing red that i drove it, To give an idea of the punishment it was drifted, raced and constantly sitting on the revlimiter every second i have had it.

Chris SkylineSII has also had his for about as long and myself and him were the first to try these as myself and partner were building them.

And he has already explained the abuse he gives his car.

I have put 24000 km's on the clock and he has put 44000 kms on his clock.

I removed Chris's turbo recently after his engine blew up and checked over it fully and there was no damage to the bearing and no discolourisation of the bearing so there was no burning which says the oil flow is efficient enough for the bearing and torture these can receive.

There is no set life span on any bearing so an accurate time frame could never be given.

This is why we provide such an extensive warranty incase the unthinkable happens.

Aaron

[Tangles]

As long as the feed of oil into the turbo is enough for the job it is doing then the turbo could theoretically live out the stock turbo.

With the oil lines increased in size and being water cooled aswell they will last a very long and fun giving time.

As an indication of abuse of these turbo's receive.....

Since the around September last year i have had this highflow in my car and there was not a night it wasnt glowing red that i drove it, To give an idea of the punishment it was drifted, raced and constantly sitting on the revlimiter every second i have had it.

Chris SkylineSII has also had his for about as long and myself and him were the first to try these as myself and partner were building them.

And he has already explained the abuse he gives his car.

I have put 24000 km's on the clock and he has put 44000 kms on his clock.

I removed Chris's turbo recently after his engine blew up and checked over it fully and there was no damage to the bearing and no discolourisation of the bearing so there was no burning which says the oil flow is efficient enough for the bearing and torture these can receive.

There is no set life span on any bearing so an accurate time frame could never be given.

This is why we provide such an extensive warranty incase the unthinkable happens.

Aaron

Cheers Aaron, sounds the goods!

I only expect to put around 80000kms onto my Stagea over the next decade, so this sounds pretty good. I mean, 24000kms would be exactly 3yrs of driving for me, 44000 would be 5.5yrs, so if the turbo was in still good nick after 5-6yrs then cost of ownership is very good indeed.

Will keep this setup (ie the turbo Satanic got) in mind for when I make a hiflow turbo decision later this year.

My Stagea is simply a street car, got 160awkw @ 12psi atm and that is great fun, would you assume that at 1bar an extra 40+awkw could be made (see attachment for current mods) with this turbo?

Brendan

Stagea_RS_V_Four_specs.doc

Edited May 11, 2006 by Tangles

[satanic]

1 bar is only 2.7PSI more than what you're currently running Brendon! Aaron is good, but he ain't God

40+ awkw extra may be a bit too much to expect out of 2.7psi, though I may be wrong!

If I ever come to SA, you are so driving me around!!!

[Sydneykid]

There is a lot of discussion about whether the plain bearing turbo will produce the same power as a ball bearing turbo. With concentration on maximum power, when the real issue is average power. If the compressor and turbine are the same, then the plain bearing turbo physically takes longer to build boost. That is simply a reflection of the higher level of drag of a plain bearing at engine oil pressure compared to ball bearings. This means the average power generated by a plain bearing turbo will always be less than an equivalent ball bearing turbo.

This same reasoning is behind the faster response to throttle inputs that we see from ball bearing turbos. More drag = slower response.

The third issue is one of heat transfer into the oil. A plain bearing turbo transfers considerably more heat into the engine oil than a ball bearing turbo. This is a reason why the oil change intervals for a ball bearing turbo equipped engine are much longer than for a plain bearing turbo equipped engine.

Nissan spent $millions working with Garret to improve the reliability of the turbos on their production cars. Ball bearings and water cooling where the noticeable results.

So if you don't care about average power, throttle response, engine oil life or the reliability of the turbo itself, then go right ahead and replace the ball bearing turbo on your car with a plain bearing one.

cheers

Edited May 11, 2006 by Sydneykid

[Kaido_RR]

Nissan spent $millions working with Garret to improve the reliability of the turbos on their production cars. Ball bearings and water cooling where the noticeable results.

So if you don't care about average power, throttle response, engine oil life or the reliability of the turbo itself, then go right ahead and replace the ball bearing turbo on your car with a plain bearing one.

cheers

hmmm.... (im no pro but hay i will have ago)

Yes on a scale Plain bearing may be less reliability than ball bearing (thou i do not agree 100% of this statment)... but why would anyone make a turbo if it wasnt reliability, greddy/trust wouldnt be making plain bearing turbo if they were to go bang after 1 to 2 years....

There is nothing wrong with plain bearing, when i can be f**ked i go find one of my mechanical engineering books, and post up some facts about plain bearing and ball bearing...

Im studing mech engineering, so im tring to think like an enginer and i cant see how in this day and age a company that is there to make money would choose a option which doesnt meet the standards of say another company making a similar item (for example greddy and hks)

just my 2cents

[Sydneykid]

' date='11 May 2006, 07:22 PM' post='2159134']

hmmm.... (im no pro but hay i will have ago)

Yes on a scale Plain bearing may be less reliability than ball bearing (thou i do not agree 100% of this statment)... but why would anyone make a turbo if it wasnt reliability, greddy/trust wouldnt be making plain bearing turbo if they were to go bang after 1 to 2 years....

There is nothing wrong with plain bearing, when i can be f**ked i go find one of my mechanical engineering books, and post up some facts about plain bearing and ball bearing...

Im studing mech engineering, so im tring to think like an enginer and i cant see how in this day and age a company that is there to make money would choose a option which doesnt meet the standards of say another company making a similar item (for example greddy and hks)

just my 2cents

My 2 cents back............

Almost all of HKS turbos (Garrett) are ball bearing, except for the really large ones where oil pressure drag from the plain bearings is not worth worrying about in comparison to the weight of the rotating assembly. And, even then they offer a ball bearing option.

Trust use Mitsubishi turbos and they don't make ball bearing turbos. So Trust have no choice but to sell plain beaing turbos. Mitsubishi are very good at turbo aerodynamics, but don't confuse that with the plain bearing versus ball bearing argument.

While we are at it we should mention Apexi tubos, ball bearing made by IHI and Blitz, plain bearing made by KKK.

By all means please think like an engineer, but keep in mind the commercial realities of the supply chain.

cheers

[Kaido_RR]

thanks for the reply sk

i was under the impression that the apexi RX6 (IHI) was only oil cooled being plain bearing ?

so i am under the impression that all EVO which would be running Mitsubishi turbos would then be plain bearing yes?

Also can't it be said that because more than one main supply is using plain bearing turbos, that the tech behide them is fairly good and that they can match ball bearing? From a design point of view wouldnt the company choose the option that produces the best result at the best price.

So if the lose from using plain bearing is say 5% but the price saving is 20% then i dont see plain bearing being that bad in a price/performace comparisons to ball bearing?

[paulr33]

The mitusbishi (evo predominately) turbochargers have stacks more R&D than the plain off the sheld TD04/TD05/Td06 items you can buy from most resellers. The evo 9 has a twin scroll exhaust housing to increase rapid spool up rate