Tuning A Stock Computer

[700HP-GTR33]

Hello ,

As you are all aware new laws came in or are coming in on the modification of cars.

I had been pulled over earlier this year,and was called up to the epa for an appointment.

The epa ,interesting enough ,were looking for after market computers and boost controlers as well as boost regulators

.

All other items were not even discussed ie Pods,Intercooler,Fuel regulator,Turbo timer,Catch can.(Which are all after market units).

It was interesting to see the mechanic looking in places people hide there valuable electronics, and i though i was there for noise pollution.

Anyway, does anyone know the limits we can go with this law . what modification can we do without it being

against the law....I was told , punishment is in the order of $6,000 for each item.(Another interesting topic)

Which brings me to the point. Can a stock ecu, (GTR GTST) be tuned to perform as well as an after market one, be it an apexi or motec ?

Can boost be set without gauges and electronics ?

I am purchasing turbos , powerfc ,and avcr for my car.Should i leave the apexi and avcr out and spend that

money on cams,rods and baffle tank?

Your input would be great .

Thanks

[R31Nismoid]

The stock ECU's can be chipped, and then subsequentally tuned. (R33 gts-t is difficult)

At the end of the day its still illegal. The EPA can pickup on a modified stock ECU, and if they do, its the same as having an aftermarket one. Its defectable and the EPA will fail you

Basically anything that modifies emissions is just about impossible to make legal.

There is a level of extent there, and many tricks to "bend" the law.

Its a bit hard to go into over a internet forum.

I suggest coming along to the next SAU-Vic General meeting if you want, come find me (name is Ash) and i can go over many things.

There are a LOT of loop holes and ways the law can be "bent" to suit the application.

I'll admit im no expert. But there are some tricks and interpretations that i've learnt over the years (and the defects/EPA's)

[YSR020]

Hey mate! I must say I am in a similar position to yourself and these new laws are stressing me a little - not because I drive like a 'hoon', but the discretionary part can/will be abused...

Anyway back to mods, try this link - it might be able to lead you to something useful...

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/in...topic=13305&hl=

Good luck!

Chris

[dezz]

The stock ECU's can be chipped, and then subsequentally tuned. (R33 gts-t is difficult)

At the end of the day its still illegal. The EPA can pickup on a modified stock ECU, and if they do, its the same as having an aftermarket one. Its defectable and the EPA will fail you

Basically anything that modifies emissions is just about impossible to make legal.

There is a level of extent there, and many tricks to "bend" the law.

Its a bit hard to go into over a internet forum.

I suggest coming along to the next SAU-Vic General meeting if you want, come find me (name is Ash) and i can go over many things.

There are a LOT of loop holes and ways the law can be "bent" to suit the application.

I'll admit im no expert. But there are some tricks and interpretations that i've learnt over the years (and the defects/EPA's)

hehe...how bout a thread in the vic members section away from prying eyes

[YSR020]

hehe...how bout a thread in the vic members section away from prying eyes

x2!

[Interloper]

yeah Ash, move the thread to members only and spill your guts out on all these tricks

[R31Nismoid]

Its hard to just "come up" with them, there are many, and its car/situation dependant.

If someone fires me a question then it works better with the way my brain functions :sorcerer:

[krzysiu]

The stock ECU's can be chipped, and then subsequentally tuned. (R33 gts-t is difficult)

At the end of the day its still illegal. The EPA can pickup on a modified stock ECU, and if they do, its the same as having an aftermarket one. Its defectable and the EPA will fail you

LOL, and i passed with my chipped one.

[R31Nismoid]

Count yourself one of the lucky ones thats for sure

I know people who have not, and mine was checked for a CHIP aswell when i went.

Opened the cover and all on the ECU.

They are on the ball the EPA, no doubt about it

[krzysiu]

Count yourself one of the lucky ones thats for sure

I know people who have not, and mine was checked for a CHIP aswell when i went.

Opened the cover and all on the ECU.

They are on the ball the EPA, no doubt about it

Damn. Before i went i just took off the sticker it had on it (some tuning thingy from japan) and i was glad it passed. The guy said that my emmisions are a little high and passed me.

[Phantom32]

ok...i get why it can be illegal b/c it modifies emissions - but isn't that a double edged sword?

I mean, the car can be made to run healthier and produce less emissions with an aftermarket ECU? so surely the EPA would take that into account wouldn't they?

[R31Nismoid]

The ECU is programmable.

Therefore, nothing stops you from altering it once you leave the EPA station.

Thats the issue with a modified/programmable ECU, and just because its got one tune now, doesnt mean you cant change it.

Its like most Vic laws and how they are administered... Its all based on assumption, not fact

[Phantom32]

ahh...ok.

didn't think of that.

thanx for clearing it up

[700HP-GTR33]

ok...i get why it can be illegal b/c it modifies emissions - but isn't that a double edged sword?

I mean, the car can be made to run healthier and produce less emissions with an aftermarket ECU? so surely the EPA would take that into account wouldn't they?

When the sound test was conducted, which i though was stupid, my car was at 5100rpm.

This is an incorrect test.The epa are assuming the vehicle is 206kw which i stated was not a correct figure to be working with to start off with The revs are at 75 %peak power. At 5100rpm i have more than 206 kws at the flywheel...

How stupid is that believing the japanese gentlemans agreemant to be gospel,

My ecu had been modified in japan and tuned for there stupid 110r fuel. The inspecting officer...mechanic...

was more interested in after market computer and boost control unit....ASH you have not made any comments on boost..

Iam interested to hear your opinion.

Regards

[paulr33]

When the sound test was conducted, which i though was stupid, my car was at 5100rpm.

This is an incorrect test.The epa are assuming the vehicle is 206kw which i stated was not a correct figure to be working with to start off with The revs are at 75 %peak power. At 5100rpm i have more than 206 kws at the flywheel...

How stupid is that believing the japanese gentlemans agreemant to be gospel,

My ecu had been modified in japan and tuned for there stupid 110r fuel. The inspecting officer...mechanic...

was more interested in after market computer and boost control unit....ASH you have not made any comments on boost..

Iam interested to hear your opinion.

Regards

The testing speed of 5100rpm is correct for the RB26 engine in the Skyline GTR as per the EPA specifications on exhaust testing. It has nothing to do with how much power the car has at the flywheel or anything to do with what you feel is right or wrong. The gentlemans rule means nothing to the EPA and australian standards as far as I can tell. Boost is irrelevant, its simply a pressure level. Why does everyone care about boost so much?

[dezz]

boost = power

[paulr33]

But the EPA couldn't care if you make 10rwkw or 300rwkw.

All they care about is emissions. If you change the actuator on the factory turbo to a 1.2 bar spring and they don't see it then they most likely wont know it is there. They don't plug a pressure guage into the manifold and have a specific test for boost. They simply look for stuff that alter emissions (that are measurable),

loud exhaust

screamer pipes

ecu change

piggyback ecu fuel systems

air intake modifications

intercooler modificiations

running 5psi or 7psi or 11psi means nothing to them. It's how loud the exhaust is, what gas comes out the ass end, and so on.

[R31Nismoid]

When the sound test was conducted, which i though was stupid, my car was at 5100rpm.

This is an incorrect test.The epa are assuming the vehicle is 206kw which i stated was not a correct figure to be working with to start off with The revs are at 75 %peak power. At 5100rpm i have more than 206 kws at the flywheel...

How stupid is that believing the japanese gentlemans agreemant to be gospel,

My ecu had been modified in japan and tuned for there stupid 110r fuel. The inspecting officer...mechanic...

was more interested in after market computer and boost control unit....ASH you have not made any comments on boost..

Iam interested to hear your opinion.

Regards

The test used to be around 4600 for the RB26.

And, since the law/rule was changed to 5100... a 100% Stock GTR with a 100% Stock Exhaust, no longer passes, believe it or not if i recall correctly.

So im not sure of where they get thier numbers from, who governs the changes/are they tabled for public input etc. Also where they get thier power/load and emission ratings from

I dont make comments about being under load (on boost) as the EPA does not care about that.

They are after idle emissions. If your idle emissions are not upto scratch, then under load its going to be worse.

The EPA basically check to make sure the stock boost solenoid is in place, and its connected.

There are ways to increase boost, without a EBC/different solenoid etc.

If they didnt open your ECU cover, again, count yourself one of the lucky ones.

The usually plug into the consult port, and then can see if the O2 sensors are working from what the EPA Officer told me last time i was there and i had quite a long discussion with him, as i will on my next visit in the next few months

My car being pre 90s didnt have the consult port So in that respect there is no way of knowing and failing on that part with my car. As long as exhaust emissions are within the tolerances i get to pass is what i took from the last visit there last year.

[700HP-GTR33]

The testing speed of 5100rpm is correct for the RB26 engine in the Skyline GTR as per the EPA specifications on exhaust testing. It has nothing to do with how much power the car has at the flywheel or anything to do with what you feel is right or wrong. The gentlemans rule means nothing to the EPA and australian standards as far as I can tell. Boost is irrelevant, its simply a pressure level. Why does everyone care about boost so much?

Where do you think they got the rev from then.?(from mid air)..

The manufacturer states the power of the car and they work out at what rev is 75% of the power produced.

The rev is then canculated...noise...is then tested.

I thought i was there to get a noise test conducted...they were just looking for how much power i had .

You see guys....we did not pay the government $100,000 for being able to have that power on the road.

We did not buy a 911,ferrari,masa. and they are upset .

I have heard a few of these cars and believe me they are loud , but you dont see them getting epa test.

Edited June 29, 2006 by 700HP-GTR33

[R31Nismoid]

You'll find that a Ferrari has winged doors in the exhaust that only open above a certain RPM

And other manufacturers cars might sounds loud under load, but remember... and this is what you are forgetting.

The test is done without load.