Jump to content
SAU Community

Recommended Posts

Hi Guys,

I have been developing a 4WD torque split Controller for the GTR. We have been testing it at track day in the White R32 GTR "Cut" and in Michael's Blue R32 GTR. The feedback has been very positive with both these drivers impressed with the results.

As several guys have taken an interest in the project at track day, I thought I would post up the operating manual so you can get the full picture of how it works and what it does.

I have also attached another picture showing the size installed in a R33 GTST. The picture is of another project I am working on, but the case is the same size and gives a good idea of how good it looks. The case is anodised aluminium with laser engraved wording.

Please have a read of the manual (the pdf below the pictures) and let me know what you think.

Paul

4WD_Controller.pdf

post-21338-1153231550.jpg

post-21338-1153231649.jpg

Edited by MountainRunner
Link to comment
https://www.sau.com.au/forums/topic/126694-gtr-4wd-torque-split-controller/
Share on other sites

  • Replies 68
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

quite sophisticated in the tuning of the system and handling with the adjustable gain, and I really like the ability to toggle between maps on the fly. Looks like you've put alot of thought into the design. excellent work Paul! If you ever want another test driver/vehicle let me know! but it looks close to production stage...

Hey guys, thanks for the positve feedback.

I designed it around three ideas. First was the Julian Edgar unit, so Map 1 emulates what it does, changing the gain is the same as turning the dial he had. Setting the device to Map 1, Gain 0 is like running stock.

The second idea was that the GTR turns in really well, but suffers from oversteer on corner exit. The more power you have the worse it gets. So the curves of maps 2, 3, 4 allow the car to handle as stock on corner entry but bring in the front torque harder on exit. Using the gain you can bend those curves to bring it in slightly more / less on corner entry and also on exit. Allowing fine tuning. I think this would also be great for the R33, R34 which drive the front wheels a lot more than the R32. Thus not increasing the load during normal driving. Of course if need to increase the front torque on corner entry you can adjust the gain positive.

The third idea was that on a race track any setup for one set of corners is a compromise on the other set. At QLD raceway, turns 1 and 2 are high speed sweepers, whereas the next few turns (if running Clubman or Sprint) are off camber, tight and a slower speed. So I added the ability to switch between two full setups while driving. You just choose your spot on the track to toggle the switch. Less compromise = quicker laps.

I also put the ability to datalog the lateral and longitudinal G force for handling analysis. Then added a channel for the 4WD Split Gauge on the dash so you can 'see' in the data what effect your setups are having. Allowing post run analysis.

hrd-hr30, you are correct. This device is ready to go. I am making 4 at the moment and 3 have already been ear marked by track day guys.

Paul

Edited by MountainRunner

Any future adaptation for a drag module along the lines of HKS's ETC-EDA unit ?. We need to be able to alter front to rear split and to be able to control 4wd drop out at certain rates at different speeds in a straight line accelleration situation.

Well done on the unit....excellent product. Price per unit??

Edited by DiRTgarage

Ska, yes the gain can be set to negative. The range is +80% to -80% of the selected Map.

DiRTgarage - I am looking at building a dedicated drag racing version. We have had a few preliminary brain storming sessions about it. What I need is a few guys who want to help with the R&D and testing. If anyone is interested, and does drag their GTR, PM me and I will organise a meeting between us. A few in the group would be ideal. We can keep the skyline community posted on our progress/ideas and get suggestions through another thread.

If anyone has any comments about the manual etc, please post them up or PM me. I want to try and make it the best I can.

Paul

Ska, yes the gain can be set to negative. The range is +80% to -80% of the selected Map.

DiRTgarage - I am looking at building a dedicated drag racing version. We have had a few preliminary brain storming sessions about it. What I need is a few guys who want to help with the R&D and testing. If anyone is interested, and does drag their GTR, PM me and I will organise a meeting between us. A few in the group would be ideal. We can keep the skyline community posted on our progress/ideas and get suggestions through another thread.

If anyone has any comments about the manual etc, please post them up or PM me. I want to try and make it the best I can.

Paul

PM sent

Hey Dan, why do you say that? All GTR's use the ATTESA system to control when the torque goes to the front wheels. They do have different algorithms between models to determine when the torque is distributed. But the theory on adjusting the lateral accelerometer is the same. The way the controller works is to trick the ATTESA into thinking that the car is either cornering harder or softer than it really is. Thus having it determine it needs more or less torque to the front wheels.

I have only been testing on R32 GTR's as they are the guys I know.

Paul

so,in short,this unit puts more torque to the front,essentially increasing the car's understeer bias,making a car that has an oversteer tendency on accel more neutral right?

what if the car behaves the opposite way? as in to much understeer on accel? can this work in the reverse to correct that?

Justin...

Yes you can use the gain control to bend the curves in the direction of more torque to the front or less.

Curve 1 will be symetrically more or less based on gain. Curves 2,3,4 can be adjusted to give more or less, but do increasingly apply the signal as the lateral acceleration increases.

Any quesitons or comments on the manual ?

Paul

MANUAL

WHAT MANUAL?

I JUST LOVE THE MANUAL.

My wife also loves the manual!!!!! It is so easy to understand that my wife, who hates cars and anything to do with them, read it and understood it!!!!!!

This is my testimony on the 4WD controller, (seeing that I am one of the lucky few in the world to have one) is, “IT WORKS 100%".

I have had Paul’s 4WD controller and Thermo Controller in my car for some time now and have not been able to fault them. My GT-R is my transport to work, where it sits in the sun all day and also shows up to the occasional Track Day. The Controllers are compact and robust enough to fit anywhere you want them to in the cabin. I have one mounted above the ctr gauges and the other in the ctr console. They are easy to read at night when I’m travelling home from work at 02:00 and don't distract you from the road.

The testing that “I” have done, has mainly been at Track Days where I started using Map 1 with a zero scale factor. My car would be extremely secptable to over steer on most cnrs. Switching then to Map 3 using the toggle switch, with 80 percent scale factor, I would incredibly be able to apply acceleration earlier out of the cnr and not have any problems with oversteer, just a nice 4wd power slide. Glancing quickly mid cnr at the torque indicator, I do remember seeing the needle moving up around the 30 to 50% position at times. The indication lines are close together if you know what I mean. Hard to pinpoint accurately the amount of torque to the front wheels. Waiting for a Data logger cable to arrive to plug into my PDA, so I can log everything it is reading.

Now my car set up is not the greatest for any Track at this stage by my standards, it is good on the road, but on a track, (different kettle of fish), so to make my tail happy car very close to neutral, and giving me better control on fast and slow cnrs, is fantastic.

I know that Paul has spent many, many hours on this project, probably nearly adding up to two years R&D trying to make a product that is user friendly, extremely accurate, sturdy yet robust with an easy to read large backlit LCD display, and dam well perfect.

This 4WD controller is fantastic and a blessing for anyone out there that is having problems with over/ under steering on a GT-R, GTS-4 and/ or anyone who just wants to fine tune there ride for road or track.

Conclusion

I LOVE IT. Just like the Manual.

It is 100% reliable, looks the goods, works, comes in heaps of different colours, and made in Australia.

Can’t get anymore patriotic then that.!!!!

TOP JOB Paully

I would like to thank Michael (jetman) and his lovely wife for the hours they spent with me on the Manual. I also love it. lol.

Seriously though, its guys like Michael, Pierce, Mick and Rajon who make this sort of project possible. They have spent countless hours giving me feedback and performing testing. Giving their time and cars to help out. We wanted to make sure these units were solid.

I want to also thank the guys who have PM'd me and bought the first units. I know this is a new product, and having guys willing to give them a try means a lot.

And thanks also to the guys who took the time to download the manual, have a read and give feedback. This is a great forum, with people happy to give their honest feedback. I think Sam would agree with me, with the launch of his VING website !!

Paul

PS: There are three units in this family, so I eagerly await your feedback on the other two as I get the manuals finalised!!!

Hey Guys,

Thanks for all the comments coming in. If there are any more questions please shoot them through.

I am putting togther a batch now, they are all sold. I will be starting a new batch shortly. If you want to reserve one please PM me.

The price is $659.

Paul

you can get the same thing on ebay for less than $300, is totally variable, not just switchable betwenn 4 or 5 settings and can go between 100% 2wd through to a torque split between the front and the rear of whatever you require. 1-100%, 100%-1.

you can get the same thing on ebay for less than $300, is totally variable, not just switchable betwenn 4 or 5 settings and can go between 100% 2wd through to a torque split between the front and the rear of whatever you require. 1-100%, 100%-1.

you can buy rubber dog shit on ebay too, only 99c.

19_1_b.JPG

Cause it's cheap doesn't mean its any good or you're not gonna get ripped off

http://cgi.ebay.com/Lot-of-2-Rubber-Dog-Po...1QQcmdZViewItem

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



  • Similar Content

  • Latest Posts

    • Update 3: Hi all It's been a while. Quite a lot of things happened in the meantime, among other things the car is (almost) back together and ready to be started again. Things that I fixed or changed: Full turbo removal, fitting back the OEM turbo oil hardlines. Had to do quite a bit of research and parts shopping to get every last piece that I need and make it work with the GT2860 turbos, but it does work and is not hard to do. Proves that the previous owner(s) just did not want to. While I was there I set the preload for the wastegates to 0,9bar to hopefully make it easier for the tuner to hit the 370hp I need for the legal inspections that will follow later on. Boost can always go up if necessary. Fitted a AN10 line from the catch can to the intake hose to make the catchcan and hopefully the cam covers a slight vacuum to have less restrictive oil returns from the head and not have mud build up as harshly in the lines and catch can. Removed the entire front interior just shy of the dashboard itself to clean up some of the absolutely horrendous wiring, (hopefully) fix the bumpy tacho and put in LED bulbs while I was there. Also put in bulbs where there was none before, like the airbag one. I also used that chance to remove the LED rpm gauge on the steering column, which was also wired in absolute horror show fashion. Moved the 4in1 Prosport gauge from sitting in front of the OEM oil pressure gauge to the center console vents, I used a 3D printed vent piece to hold that gauge there. The HKB steering wheel boss was likely on incorrectly as I sometimes noticed the indicator reset being uneven for left vs. right. In the meantime also installed an airbag delete resistor, as one should. Installed Cube Speed premium short shifter. Feels pretty nice, hope it'll work great too when I actually get to drive. Also put on a fancy Dragon Ball shift knob, cause why not. My buddy was kind enough to weld the rust hole in the back, it was basically rusted through in the lowermost corner of the passenger side trunk area where the wheel arch, trunk panel and rear quarter all meet. Obviously there is still a lot of crustiness in various areas but as long as it's not rusted out I'll just treat and isolate the corrosion and pretend it's not there. Also had to put down a new ground wire for the rear subframe as the original one was BARELY there. Probably a bit controversial depending on who you ask about this... but I ended up just covering the crack in the side of the engine block, the one above the oil feed, with JB Weld. I used a generous amount and roughed up the whole area with a Dremel before, so I hope this will hold the coolant where it should be for the foreseeable future. Did a cam cover gasket job as the half moons were a bit leaky, and there too one could see the people who worked on this car before me were absolute tools. The same half moons were probably used like 3 times without even cleaning the old RTV off. Dremeled out the inside of the flange where the turbine housing mates onto the exhaust manifolds so the diameter matches, as the OEM exhaust manifolds are even narrower than the turbine housings as we all know. Even if this doesn't do much, I had them out anyways, so can't harm. Ideally one would port-match both the turbo and the manifold to the gasket size but I really didn't feel up to disassembling the turbine housings. Wrapped turbo outlet dumps in heat wrap band. Will do the frontpipe again as well as now the oil leak which promted me to tear apart half the engine in the first place is hopefully fixed. Fitted an ATI super damper to get rid of the worn old harmonic balancer. Surely one of the easiest and most worth to do mods. But torquing that ARP bolt to spec was a bitch without being able to lock the flywheel. Did some minor adjustments in the ECU tables to change some things I didn't like, like the launch control that was ALWAYS active. Treated rusty spots and surface corrosion on places I could get to and on many spots under the car, not pretty or ideal but good enough for now. Removed the N1 rear spats and the carbon surrounding for the tailpipe to put them back on with new adhesive as the old one was lifting in many spots, not pretty. Took out the passenger rear lamp housing... what do you know. Amateur work screwed me again here as they were glued in hard and removing it took a lot of force, so I broke one of the housing bolts off. And when removing the adhesive from the chassis the paint came right off too. Thankfully all the damaged area won't be visible later, but whoever did the very limited bodywork on this car needs to have their limbs chopped off piece by piece.   Quite a list if I do say so myself, but a lot of time was spent just discovering new shit that is wrong with the car and finding a solution or parts to fix it. My last problem that I now have the headache of dealing with is that the exhaust studs on the turbo outlets are M10x1.25 threaded, but the previous owner already put on regular M10 nuts so the threads are... weird. I only found this out the hard way. So now I will just try if I can in any way fit the front pipe regardless, if not I'll have to redo the studs with the turbos installed. Lesson learned for the future: Redo ALL studs you put your hands on, especially if they are old and the previous owners were inept maniacs. Thanks for reading if you did, will update when the engine runs again. Hope nothing breaks or leaks and I can do a test drive.
    • No those pads are DBA too  but they have colors too. I look at the and imo the green "street" are the best.
    • I’m not sure what happened I told them about sonic tunes free OTS tune and the next the I know .. I was booted..   To funny 
    • Yea - I mean I've seen my fuel pump which is decades old and uh, while I'm not saying this with real knowledge... but I sure get the ick at using anything in the fuel system that produced the state of that pump. Many years ago I went through multiple pumps (and strainers) before I dropped the tank to clean it out with extreme violence. I'm talking the car would do maybe 50km before coming to a halt, which resulted in me cleaning out the filter with some brake cleaner and going on my way. None of my stuff ever looked like what came out of your fuel tank. I don't think I'd be happy with it unless every single component was replaced (or at least checked/cleaned/confirmed to be clean here).
    • I'm not going to recommend an EBC pad. I don't like them. Just about anything else would suit me better. I've been using Intima pads for a while now.
×
×
  • Create New...