Most Rwkw With A Safc/2/neo

[otto]

hi guys just interested to see how much power you guys are getting out of a safc (so to speak) you know the amount of power your getting where the safc is the limiting factor. doesnt matter what mods

with the std afm i seem to have run out of resolution at 210rwkw (right on the verge of RR for the ecu and running lean on the engine).

has anyone managed to get much more than this with a safc and say z32 or whatever afm or been able to run bigger turbos with it??

Thanks

Edited August 9, 2006 by otto

[mad082]

the big problem isn't the safc, its the stock ecu. once you hit r&r its game over. i have picked up a stock ecu that has been remapped, so it has no speed cut, r&r and higher rev limiter. i'm going to be going with a safc, and eventually a sitc as well. i just want to do something different.

[nizmokid]

well i got 230rwkw out of my car with a safc2 450hp turbo, cooler, spitfire coils.......car injectors were reaching 90% duty cycle. so have got rid off the safc2 and got larger injectors and a Altronic ecu!

[paulr33]

i wouldnlt expect there is a hard cut limit. it will simply come down to how well you can comprimise the tune and juggle the load points.

eventually youll get to a stage where the safc just dials in too much timing so it detonates, the stock ecu backs off timing as it see's too much detonation.

so its a catch 20 situation. sooner or later you'll just want to change to stand alone to get around those issues but certainly give it a shot. i would expect somewhere past 250 to be the limits of the juggling act and detonation kicking in.

[Munna1]

Basically SAFC is fine if you have the stock turbo. If you are using one with an aftermarket turbo to many comprimise need to be made, it may work but you will be getting far from the best out of your setup

[khunjeng]

cos I'm waiting for my PFC I'm running an emanage which is very simiar in terms of features to the SAFC. The problem is as Paul33 exlpained...

It got a initial run of 275 but I have backed it off for the reasons explained to about 250 and even then its not perfect...the standalone ecu is the go with these kinds of numbers.

so spot on Paulr33

[mad082]

are you running the emanage with the ignition harness aswell, or just the fuel? if you ran the emanage with the ignition timing control then the power figure could be increased.

[otto]

i wouldnlt expect there is a hard cut limit. it will simply come down to how well you can comprimise the tune and juggle the load points.

eventually youll get to a stage where the safc just dials in too much timing so it detonates, the stock ecu backs off timing as it see's too much detonation.

so its a catch 20 situation. sooner or later you'll just want to change to stand alone to get around those issues but certainly give it a shot. i would expect somewhere past 250 to be the limits of the juggling act and detonation kicking in.

How does the safc dial in timing?

the way i understood what was going on was without the safc when the afm maxes 5v you get r&r with the safc you can lower the voltage to lean things out and the std comp will see less than 5v so no r&r eventually though if you keep increasing the airfow you will reach a point where you are running to lean to stop the std comp from seeing 5v and if you try to richen things up the std comp will see 5v and r&r

i have found with afrs of 12-1 the max amount of power i can get out of the car whith afm signal manipulation from the safc before i get r&r ie, the std comp sees 5v is 210rwkw. with the std afm i dont see how you can get much more than as you will either be running to lean or the std comp will r&r this is why i said the safc is the limiting factor however with a z32 afm i think you would have a little more skope

Edited August 9, 2006 by otto

[paulr33]

as you bend the afm signal, it in turns shows more airflow to the ecu. the ecu in turn dials in more ignition, sorry i should have said as a result of bending the afm signal. the safc itself doesnt add more ignition, the ecu does

[otto]

as you bend the afm signal, it in turns shows more airflow to the ecu. the ecu in turn dials in more ignition, sorry i should have said as a result of bending the afm signal. the safc itself doesnt add more ignition, the ecu does

the std ecu ignition maps arnt terrably advanced nomatter what the airflow. it doesnt just keep adding timing the timing is preset and its preset values (even the most advanced ones)arnt enough to cause detonation you will be getting detonation from either running lean or be hitting r&r well before your timing becomes to advanced

ps. if you show more airflow to the ecu it will richen the miture and retard the timing not advance it thats what r&r is

Edited August 9, 2006 by otto

[Tangles]

so, get a SITC too.............

[mad082]

the way i understood what was going on was without the safc when the afm maxes 5v you get r&r with the safc you can lower the voltage to lean things out and the std comp will see less than 5v so no r&r eventually though if you keep increasing the airfow you will reach a point where you are running to lean to stop the std comp from seeing 5v and if you try to richen things up the std comp will see 5v and r&r

i have found with afrs of 12-1 the max amount of power i can get out of the car whith afm signal manipulation from the safc before i get r&r ie, the std comp sees 5v is 210rwkw. with the std afm i dont see how you can get much more than as you will either be running to lean or the std comp will r&r this is why i said the safc is the limiting factor however with a z32 afm i think you would have a little more skope

that isn't how r&r works. it is based on rpm vs airflow. it has a preset limit for each rpm sector. mine used to kick in at about 3000rpm, but if i just slowly acellerated to about 4000rpm then stomped it i wouldn't have it kick in.

[otto]

it was a pretty good discription without getting to tech, the basic concept is there in that discription

Edited August 9, 2006 by otto

[otto]

so, get a SITC too.............

Guys i just wanted to know how far people had taken things with a safc and weather a larger afm gave them abitmore headroom, practical advice only please dont give me your theorys

[Tangles]

Guys i just wanted to know how far people had taken things with a safc and weather a larger afm gave them abitmore headroom, practical advice only please dont give me your theorys

hey; settle down lad. you guys were talking about ign timing too, so I added my 2c.

I run a safcII.... had standard afm, was too hard to tune past 140awkw as the afm was seeing 5.1V.... added the Z32 afm and a sitc and tuned now to 160awkw, with plenty more headroom.

with a larger turbocharger and *maybe* slightly highflowed injectors (maybe, still unsure whether 370cc will be fine for 200awkw or if 410-420cc would be better and still tuneable) I expect to see over 200awkw.

so - the larger afm does give you more headroom, but so too does the SITC.

[otto]

well i got 230rwkw out of my car with a safc2 450hp turbo, cooler, spitfire coils.......car injectors were reaching 90% duty cycle. so have got rid off the safc2 and got larger injectors and a Altronic ecu!

nismokid was this with the std afm or another??

[otto]

thanks tangles,

my reply wasnt comletly directed at you i just grabbed your reply as an example cause i thaught things were getting a little off topic sorry if it seemed harsh

[Tangles]

thanks tangles,

my reply wasnt comletly directed at you i just grabbed your reply as an example cause i thaught things were getting a little off topic sorry if it seemed harsh

cheers, my bad if I read too much into things................

at end of day, a z32 afm would be definately worthwhile, but so too would a sitc to further enable a "fine tune".

best of luck with it!

[mad082]

just curious as to whether you test the afm with a multimeter, or whether it was just the fact that it was cutting out?

all the research i have done says that you should be able to get to around 240kw with the stock afm (less for you tangles since it is awkw). a z32 afm still maxes out at the same voltage.

[otto]

just curious as to whether you test the afm with a multimeter, or whether it was just the fact that it was cutting out?

all the research i have done says that you should be able to get to around 240kw with the stock afm (less for you tangles since it is awkw). a z32 afm still maxes out at the same voltage.

yes it maxes at the same voltage but it takes more airflow to get to that voltage and more airflow+more fuel would be more power thats what i want to find out.