Minor Service Major Snowball R33/rb25

[ECR033]

Anyway, I had a 369rwkw RB25 setup for 18months.

I also had the whiz bang Walbro (definately not a copy), it was wired correctly.

It was maxed out by 250rwkw/16psi.

Swapped for a Bosch, and AFR's went from 14's down into the 10s with just a fuel pump change and nothing else, running the factory rail presure.

So, there is experience behind my posts, i also know of others that have had similar issues.

Seems someone people do, some people dont.

Don't doubt what you're saying at all mate, although I am surprised that it maxed out at 250rwkw.

I've got a consistent AFR of 12, running 285rwkw @ 17psi - so I guess this just illustrates the fact that there's plenty of conflicting experiences/advice with this pump.

Interestingly enough, there's a small write up on fuel pumps in the latest issue of Zoom - from what I remember, Mr Donnon was even implying that these pumps are good for 350rwkw (take that one with a grain of salt), so buggered if I know...

Anyway, I'm digressing off the topic...

My 200rwkw definately cost more than $4k...

FMIC - $1500

Exhaust - $1000

Clutch - $1000

PFC - $1100

EBC - $500

Tuning - $500

[WogsRus]

Well ok so i'll put a pickle in the mix.

I got all the parts myself and did the installs myself so here it goes.

Walbow Gss342 pump $195 (genuine pump too, not a coppy)

FMIC $399 Just Jap one (fitted well no modifications can't complain)

HKS Pod allready in the car, i made a CAI for it

Clutch Excedy HD $389 from Slide (mine died)

Splitfires, had to get my coils DIED big time $589 from Slide

SAFC II $399 new from Ebay

GIZZMO EBC $369 form Abarn

Exhaust was $199 for full dump, free HIGH flow cat, $160 to get the rest made up, and the muffler was free.

Full Tune spent six hours on it $200

Result was 187rwKw at 10.2psi, some more tuning and managed to get 201rwKws at 12.3psi.

BUT my midrange is down due to not having a PFC.

so if i didn't have to get coils and clutch, i think a 2K budget i guess the results are all good.

[l0WRB]

this is my 208rwkw costs

walbro intank pump $160

intercooler kit thru gktech $400

3" dumpipe $200

3" exhaust gutted cat $350

boost set to 12psi..

stock ecu..

i done it under $1500 + $200 labour to make exhaust and fit cooler kit..so $1200 all up

since fitted powerfc/stage3 highflow from sliding..waiting on z32 afm and fuel reg then maybe a tune?mmm

Edited January 10, 2007 by l0WRB

[khunjeng]

hmmmmm

250rwkw is quite fast for the street. Currently I'm running about 250 and its damn fast, 1bar @ 3k - pulls all the way to the line.. I can keep up with the best of them when i get traction.

So what did I add to the above to get it there?

New turbo..custom...think of it as a highflow.

FMIC

Dump

New 730CFM Hi-Flow Cat

New zorst to the tips

AFM

PFC

AVCR

Spitfirepacks (cos my old ones were dead) new IX plugs cos i had them

@1bar was running 250rwkw. Shitloads more everything, everywhere.

What happened soon after?

Clutch...fried

Stock Suspension...couldn't hold it down

Tyres/Wheels...not enough traction

WHats happened next?

Wheels : Work XT7s from J land. 18x9.5 on the rear fitted with 265s $4k all up

Bilstien Shockers + Whiteline springs (like the SK Group Guy) - Setup by Centreline in melbourne. $3k all up inclufind some other bits and pieces.

Twin PLate Push Button Clutch - cos I wanted grip but always wanted it to be as easy to drive as possible ~$2500 fitted with some other stuff.

Whats happeing now...

Running on the turbos max eff. of 1.3 bar. WIll run to about 290 I rekcon based on a run we did before the clutch was slipping on the initial tune with the new turbo...but in the end my aim was street speed...not max power so even if its 270 I'm not fussed. gets to 1.3 at about 3k like a stock turbo...lol lets just say it goes off the line..IMO max power is a bit of a wank factor to you mates and keybaord warriers when we talk about street driven cars, its all about response, quick spool and fast 0-100 for me...that was my aim.

Overall, spent some money. This is with stock internals for the moment...wait until they need a replacement!

IMO...u can get to 250 probably...but what R31Nismoid was saying...its more than just peak power, its response and the ability to drive the thing witht he power u have got.

[R31Nismoid]

this is my 208rwkw costs

walbro intank pump $160

intercooler kit thru gktech $400

3" dumpipe $200

3" exhaust gutted cat $350

boost set to 12psi..

stock ecu..

i done it under $1500 + $200 labour to make exhaust and fit cooler kit..so $1200 all up

since fitted powerfc/stage3 highflow from sliding..waiting on z32 afm and fuel reg then maybe a tune?mmm

RRP please

So 210rwkw without even an AFC?

Got a timeslip with near on 108-110mph? Cause i think 210 without any interceptor at all is getting into the ridiculous.

I ran 111 with 220rwkw

[Strik3r]

im with nismoid on this one. All the reading ive been doing and my own experiences with my car lead me to believe that hitting 200 with a complete stock ECU with no piggy back is near impossible. r'n'r will snap you as soon as you try and get the boost up to the pressure required to pull 200 kw. im actually gonna decrease the boost a bit from mine (its at 12ish atm on stock ECU) to try and avoid a really nasty flat spot in at around 4k revs as i think it will give a better speed. like someone said, the KW figure is a rough guideline at best. If your engine is cutting out from excessive boost at 4k revs, you wont be winning any 1/4 mile races.

ive got:

custom stainless steel dump pipe

highflow stainless steel cat

Nismo FMIC

CAI + K&N pod filter

500hp fuel pump

bleed valve set to ~12 PSI on high.

and i get about 185 KW

Edited January 10, 2007 by Strik3r

[l0WRB]

RRP please

So 210rwkw without even an AFC?

Got a timeslip with near on 108-110mph? Cause i think 210 without any interceptor at all is getting into the ridiculous.

I ran 111 with 220rwkw

well it was done in shootout mode so im guessing it would read higher? I wish i could take the car to a test and tune see my mph..but unfortunately banaraby got burnt down not long ago..once there back up and running id love to go and check out the mph mmm once tuned id only really want 220rwkw anyways..genuinely hehe...last time i went to a test n tune was wit my calais turbo..160rwkw and got 100mph..so yeh 220rwkw once tuned should see over 110mph im hopin!

Edited January 10, 2007 by l0WRB

[Spoolemup]

I got 200rwkw and a few 106mph passes, and I did it rather cheaply!

$350 for ECU remap

$450 for Split Dump/front pipe

$400 for Stainless cat

$800 for Catback

$1500 for Clutch

$500 for Intercooler

$250 for Bosch 044 pump

=

$4250 + labour.

So I guess I do agree! If I went with an aftermarket ecu and a tune add ~$1200 to that figure.

You can argue that you don't need the intercooler or the clutch, but to each their own.

None of this is including any suspension work either...

The $2500 mentioned was actually $2400 includes piggyback & intercooler the clutch was done before the mods so forget to mention, but add that anyway $440=$2840 thats a far cry from 4250+$1200 to get the same result. I used an AFC and your $1200 is APFC im assuming, so take $600 of that still takes you close to 5k, $4250 plus labour that would put you in the $6000+ without the ecu, and chasing $8000 if not over with.Well i dont think i need to do the math any further.

Do you need a mechanic ??????

Edited January 10, 2007 by Spoolemup

[Spoolemup]

Well... stock ECU, i call a "happy" dyno. I'd like to see some ET's to backup that 200rwkw without any ECU/interceptor as they'd be amusing without a doubt

Anyway, I had a 369rwkw RB25 setup for 18months.

I also had the whiz bang Walbro (definately not a copy), it was wired correctly.

It was maxed out by 250rwkw/16psi.

Swapped for a Bosch, and AFR's went from 14's down into the 10s with just a fuel pump change and nothing else, running the factory rail presure.

So, there is experience behind my posts, i also know of others that have had similar issues.

Seems someone people do, some people dont.

I dont doubt that you have the experience, But your telling me how much i cant do it for & im telling you how much i have done it for, atleast when it gets to 200kw. Im yet to decide on a turbo upgrade on this project but im guessing a Garret would be better than a GCG both in price & performance?. Are the GCG's your mentioning Highflowed stock turbos??? There are others who agree with you on the price/performance issue, Lets just say Hidden Agenda Anyone?

[Spoolemup]

hmmmmm

250rwkw is quite fast for the street. Currently I'm running about 250 and its damn fast, 1bar @ 3k - pulls all the way to the line.. I can keep up with the best of them when i get traction.

So what did I add to the above to get it there?

New turbo..custom...think of it as a highflow.

FMIC

Dump

New 730CFM Hi-Flow Cat

New zorst to the tips

AFM

PFC

AVCR

Spitfirepacks (cos my old ones were dead) new IX plugs cos i had them

@1bar was running 250rwkw. Shitloads more everything, everywhere.

What happened soon after?

Clutch...fried

Stock Suspension...couldn't hold it down

Tyres/Wheels...not enough traction

WHats happened next?

Wheels : Work XT7s from J land. 18x9.5 on the rear fitted with 265s $4k all up

Bilstien Shockers + Whiteline springs (like the SK Group Guy) - Setup by Centreline in melbourne. $3k all up inclufind some other bits and pieces.

Twin PLate Push Button Clutch - cos I wanted grip but always wanted it to be as easy to drive as possible ~$2500 fitted with some other stuff.

Whats happeing now...

Running on the turbos max eff. of 1.3 bar. WIll run to about 290 I rekcon based on a run we did before the clutch was slipping on the initial tune with the new turbo...but in the end my aim was street speed...not max power so even if its 270 I'm not fussed. gets to 1.3 at about 3k like a stock turbo...lol lets just say it goes off the line..IMO max power is a bit of a wank factor to you mates and keybaord warriers when we talk about street driven cars, its all about response, quick spool and fast 0-100 for me...that was my aim.

Overall, spent some money. This is with stock internals for the moment...wait until they need a replacement!

IMO...u can get to 250 probably...but what R31Nismoid was saying...its more than just peak power, its response and the ability to drive the thing witht he power u have got.

I understand the drivability & the wank factor all too well? Some wank to HP figures others wank with their wallets and others wank the wankas to wank their wallets and theirs a good chance i use the term "WHAT A F#$kN WANK" more than you

[tuitahi]

Well i dont think i need to do the math any further.

Do you need a mechanic ??????

Hahah, no mechanic needed

Of course it could be done cheaper than I did it, and I even purchased some items second hand/discounted...

Substitute my;

Split Dump/Stainless Cat/Jap Brand Cat Back for a $700 mild steel x-force

Nismo twin-plate and flywheel for a $450 item

Jap Brand Intercooler kit for a $385 Chinese copy

and that would've brought me down to 2k flat, whether or not I would've ended up with the same power figures, driveability and linear power delivery I couldn't tell you.

[khunjeng]

I understand the drivability & the wank factor all too well? Some wank to HP figures others wank with their wallets and others wank the wankas to wank their wallets and theirs a good chance i use the term "WHAT A F#$kN WANK" more than you

whats r u saying? its all a wank? not sure how that helps him choose parts. Although wanking would make him feel better no doubt.

[R31Nismoid]

I dont doubt that you have the experience, But your telling me how much i cant do it for & im telling you how much i have done it for, atleast when it gets to 200kw. Im yet to decide on a turbo upgrade on this project but im guessing a Garret would be better than a GCG both in price & performance?. Are the GCG's your mentioning Highflowed stock turbos??? There are others who agree with you on the price/performance issue, Lets just say Hidden Agenda Anyone?

Depends what Garrett vs what GCG offering really.

You can search and find a lot of information about them, and Slide's turbos, and many other suppliers.

And to imply hidden agenda, grow up

and that would've brought me down to 2k flat, whether or not I would've ended up with the same power figures, driveability and linear power delivery I couldn't tell you.

And thats probably the post of the day, couldnt agree more!

As its likely that you would not have, i think you know that aswell

[Abo Bob]

Ok so some people seem to be getting some power out of the Walbro. The only valid conclusion in this regard then is that you can't reliably expect one to do it for you if you buy it now.

I pulled the return line off my fuel rail when the car was on the dyno and at about 240rwkw the return flow had completely stopped. The AFR's had started to lean a little and we stopped the run so we didn't blow the engine.

I replaced the pump straight away.

So maybe you will get lucky, maybe not. Don't let us stop you taking a punt, just be careful.

[series2r33]

Monsta turbos = you take your own risk.

You will get to around 250-260rwkw, which isnt 300rwkw... but the 250rwkw is amazingly responsive. Virtually like a stock turbo with a truck load more ooomph everywhere, and will make a truly fast street car.

Clutch - see the Drivetrain section. There is a sticky thread about good clutch makers

I spent so far: series 2 r33 GTST:

$580 = $980 installed - KGCM intercooler

$70 - Turbosmart vee port bov, 2nd hand off my mate

$550 = $620 installed - Eboost 1

$550 - 3" Dump pipe and high flow cat (already had cat back)

$980 - Apexi power FC with hand controller (from japan... cheaper, just that instruction manual is in japanese)

$125 - Custom cold in intake and Simoto pod filter and heat shield.

= $3325

As for the quote, R31Nismoid, u sure know what your talkin about so i'll listen. U reckon a 250rwkw car would be faster on the street than a 300rwkw one? i got 18 x 9.5 tyres on the rear now and with roughly 200rwkw "differance in dynos" its ok with traction compared to the stock 16 x 6.5.

What do u reckon the next step is, im thinking definatly fuel pump, injectors since mine are maxed out now top mount exhaust manifold and a bigger turbo, but im not sure what size... sorta depends what u say bout "250rwkw vs 300rwkw"

[R31Nismoid]

U reckon a 250rwkw car would be faster on the street than a 300rwkw one? i got 18 x 9.5 tyres on the rear now and with roughly 200rwkw "differance in dynos" its ok with traction compared to the stock 16 x 6.5.

What do u reckon the next step is, im thinking definatly fuel pump, injectors since mine are maxed out now top mount exhaust manifold and a bigger turbo, but im not sure what size... sorta depends what u say bout "250rwkw vs 300rwkw"

A well sorted car (Good suspension setup correctly, good tyres, diff, lighter flywheel etc etc) with 250rwkw will destroy a car with 300rwkw and a poor setup like stocker suspension, average tyres as you will never ever put that power to ground.

There is a lot more to a fast car than power, in fact, it has only a small portion to do with power. The main portion is every other little part.

GCG hi-flow IMO is the way to go hands down having been in a number of RB25's with GCG's, great response and midrange = fast street car. 250rwkw, stock manifold etc. Bolts on. Cant ask for more. There are other hi-flows on the market, but i have not personally seen the results, so i cant comment as accurately

If i had an RB25 again, that would be my choice for a street car.

[Adriano]

As an example of what nimoid is saying when i worked at chiptorque, we built a s14 which made 376rwkw, big turbo, cams, 26psi, on the street, it felt like a diesel gemini until 5500rpm, almost impossible to make boost in first without being silly. If it ever came on boost on the street, it would wheelspin 1,2,3,4 in about 100m, it was the most impracticle car ever, no good for anything. No average power, the further you can stay away from something like this, the better.

[series2r33]

Alright.. Thanks heaps guys

One more thing is the GCG hi-flo a top or bottom mount turbo, and where do i get one, their bout $1750 hey? I got told to look at a GT30 or GT35?

Are u sayin keep the intake or exhaust manifold stock?

And what about the longer intercooler pipes "as attached" with that kind of power "hence i was thinkin intake manifold" ?

[R31Nismoid]

The GCG, goes where your stock one does

So you dont need to change a thing, keep all your existing gear no problem

[series2r33]

What boost would that be running to get 250rwkw?

Cause i heard if i go above 14 i should really look at changing the intake manifold and in turn shortening and enlarging the intercooler piping say to 3"

The intercooler piping even heats up now so im thinkin that with more boost cooler air will help heaps?

Or should i keep it all the same and get the stock intake manifold polished to suit the rest