Drag Tag, Thumbs Down To Vic Cops

[scathing]

to ambush something they promote is the issue here! not driving an illegally modified car

As you say, its nothing to do with driving an illegally modified car.

The police are promoting an event to get people "racing" off the street instead of on it. I don't recall them ever saying that they'd let you break other laws because you've decided to do something right. Just because they're promoting an event to stop street racing doesn't all of a sudden make it OK to drive a defective car on the street.

If you want to build an off-street vehicle, tow it. If you can't afford to get a tow car, you can't afford to build an off-street vehicle. Simple as that.

[scathing]

But all of yous keep saying how great the vic police & tmu is! lol yous are all sheep and will realise why im not so compliant to the law! Coz of low acts like this is why i just dont care about the law!

Hey asshat.

They're bitching about basically entrapping people whose cars may comply with the spirit but not the letter of the law. They're not out there committing fraud, driving a car that's got major problems with it, and repeatedly acting like a complete f**kwit behind the wheel and on the Internet.

Bitching about this, and applauding them for busting your arse, are two completely different things.

You know you've hit rock bottom when the idiots at ns.com start bagging you out for doing something stupid.

[scathing]

There wont be any need for facilities if they force all the cars off the road and take all the licences of drivers interested in motorsport.

They're not forcing all the cars off the road. They're forcing the ones that aren't road legal. The guys willing to obey the law and either modify their cars in a road legal manner, or trailer their off-street vehicles to the events, would still be left alone.

To the guys that were there, did every car get canaried on their way out of DragTag?

Its a common catchcry that we should "think about the children". Does that mean the cops should stop arresting pedophiles? After all, they "think about the children" (probably more often than your average lawmaker or law enforcemer does) and they only want to make them happy and feel good. An admirable principle, so the fact that the way they implement it may not be legal should be excused....

Edited February 23, 2007 by scathing

[NismoR31Jet]

WRONG, police cars are fitted with a "performance chip" are they not, now i thought modifying or aftermarket ECU's were not allowed... they are under the law also, not above it...

anyways on another note, does anyone know what "1 penalty unit"

is worth, eg $monerty value / demerit points?

Cop cars DO NOT run different engine managment AT ALL.

As working in holden for quite some time, I can say the only differences to the Commodores (in case of the executive here) an LSD diff, wider wheels and rubber, better suspension, and engine bash guard and a better alternator. All the SS's get is the bigger alternator.

And there are no 'chips' and more, it is now all flash tune.

[scathing]

A friend of mine bought an ex-chaser VT Series 1, which had a mandrel-bent catback on it.

Not sure if it was fitted before the cops put it up for auction or whether it was there the whole time, but it sounded nice.

[Roy]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion...lol, mine is scathing isnt looking at the big picture.

How can we have grass roots motorsport when a VT Commodore cant have a cam, chip and exhaust upgrade with coilovers and bigger brakes? How can we have grass roots motorsport if a Skyline owner cant have an intercooler, turbo upgrade and ecu/injectors/fuel pump.

Australia has a number of internationally recognised performance part manufacatureres. From Turbosmart, Harrop, Motec etc. These businesses would not have even got off the ground if it wasnt for the street car enthusiasts.

I dont see major race meets at PI, Winton, Sandown and Calder every week. The facility owners gain a large percentage of their income for leasing their facilities to clubs where members can enjoy their cars.

So are we all expected to drive Skylines with std ECU, lowered springs and a cat back exhaust?

Again, i am all for ensuring cars are not loud, they are safe, they are not belching fumes and toxins into the sky. I personally believe that if you are a CAMS licence holder and use your car at club events, then you should be able to get a particular type of registration for your car. It is less restrictive with regards to mods, it is more expensive to obtain...and still has the key requirements of exhaust dB and cat etc. But provided the car is engineered to an agreed benchmark then the car can be driven on the street.

At the moment you are saying that basically 90% of the cars turning up at the WRX, HSV/FPR , FFCC etc track days should be trailered there. The reality is that these cars are street cars that ppl rely on driving to/from work etc. Again it is a Vic Govt scheme at the moment to ensure access and support, and the greater economic benefit of grass roots motorsport. Neglecting the aspect of car ownership and modifications is like ensuring kids have pools to swim in but arent allowed to unless they have a scuba licence and all the tanks and BA gear.

[dezz]

To the guy that said its easy to modify a car legally (One of the many posts I had quoted to reply to in my previous post) I'd like to know how you get past around 170rwkw in an R32/R33/R34 without either chipped stock ECU (R32), a piggyback computer or a stand alone

[SKY031]

nark, I don't believe I misinterpretted it, he said they were asked to leave quitely, and the ones who didn't were mostly the ones getting pulled over.

Being asked to leave quietly is way above and beyond any duty of care that the owners of the business have, they didn't have to say anything at all.

What's the condition of the road?

Are there lots of nice black tyre marks all over the road?

...Ash, I found a really good site in regards to vic motor law, defects etc the other day and i forgot to link it to the 'epa' thread, i'll have a dig around and try finding it again, I think a lot of people would benefit from it

[SKY031]

Found and added

http://www.trafficlaw.com.au/your.rights.html

[scathing]

It is less restrictive with regards to mods, it is more expensive to obtain...and still has the key requirements of exhaust dB and cat etc. But provided the car is engineered to an agreed benchmark then the car can be driven on the street.

I forgot that I'm in the Victorian forum.

You mean to tell me that you guys don't have an Engineering Certification system to pass your mods? I can technically run a lot more mods than "springs, catback" in NSW and get the car certified so its 100% street legal.

[scathing]

Being asked to leave quietly is way above and beyond any duty of care that the owners of the business have, they didn't have to say anything at all.

Other residents could complain about the noise generated by the business' customers.

I know that a few workshops in Sydney have had "issues" with their neighbours when running dyno days for clubs, and having overenthusiastic drivers pulling burnouts or drifting in the industrial park complex itself, and out onto the street.

I'm not sure how liable they were, but its not good for business or for relations with the people around you to be inviting hoonery into their neighbourhood.

[Roy]

I forgot that I'm in the Victorian forum.

You mean to tell me that you guys don't have an Engineering Certification system to pass your mods? I can technically run a lot more mods than "springs, catback" in NSW and get the car certified so its 100% street legal.

This is an example of what happens.

Officer defects a vehicle for things he "believes" are illegal. Fair enough, 9 times out of 10 they are right. So off to Voc Roads after fixing the obvious stuff to have them tell you they cant really clear the defect etc, you need to see an engineer so that a professional can give the car the ok.

Now most of the engineers will tell you the car needs to be std as per DOTARS and the compliance of the car. Some are a little more adventurous and will let you have a few mods but they have to be carried out in accordance with their own personal fancy. Two engineers can give you two difference stories about what you need to do, often with a big difference in dollars.

Ok, so you have now appeased the engineer and you are back at Vic Roads to get the defect cleared. Everyone is happy, only by this stage your letter from the EPA has arrived as you are on their radar now because of the defect and the officer who pulled you over.

So now your car is screwed again, because even if you convinced the engineer that the turbo and ecu you have on the car are nice and quiet, installed correctly and the tune isnt crazy rich , the EPA will fail you unless you have std injectorsm ECU, turbo and AFM.

Its a merry go round with two cars with the exact same mods having different dramas and end results

[scathing]

That's..............shit.

See, that I don't agree with. There should be a clear path for compliance. As long as they hook the thing up to those gas spectrometer things and it passes emissions, and it passes noise, that's it. It shouldn't matter if its stock, or not.

[R32Big_boy]

but it does matter, and even if you do get an engineer's cert it wont cover you. You could be driving out of the workshop with the ink still drying on your certificate and get pulled over. if the officer deems your car not to be in a roadworthy state then it isn't, plain and simple. Vic roads will then get in the ear of the engineer and he wont want to know you anymore.

If it were as simple as what is was in qld where you could get a plate for the car that said it passes all emission's etc with the modifications then we'd be laughing but the government decided to give all of the power to the bloke behind the uniform who doesn't always have all the right information to pass judgment on your car's roadworthieness.

hopefully things will cool down in a while and we might be able to enjoy these cars, that or we all move the f**k out of victoria.

[GTAAAH]

nark, I don't believe I misinterpretted it, he said they were asked to leave quitely, and the ones who didn't were mostly the ones getting pulled over.

Being asked to leave quietly is way above and beyond any duty of care that the owners of the business have, they didn't have to say anything at all.

What's the condition of the road?

Are there lots of nice black tyre marks all over the road?

The announcer SUGGESTED that people leave quietly and people DID leave quietly, they did this because they feared loss of business if the police started defecting left right and centre, not as a favour. There are no marks on the road in front of drag tag, even though it's an industrial area. The people leaving weren't and haven't been doing burnouts.

Aslo, and saying this for the 5th time, some people seem oblivious to the fact that not all defects are given fairly or are even given to defective cars. It's all about how much of a power trip the cops are on, on that particular night or any of a number of other factors

Also how can you possibly know who was getting pulled over? The cops weren't hiding, it's not like ppl did burnouts then realised the cops were there, the word had circulated all the way around the premises before people had begun leaving. At the time i left, about 6 other cars were leaving and there were two cars next to mine when i got waved. They pulled over some older guy who had his kids in the back and was driving a commonwhore with me.

As i said, i knew about 30 people there on the night and not one of them knows of any burnouts on leaving, or even anyone who had the guys to rev there car over 2000rpm as people tried to sneak out

[bigcarl]

easy solution ,dont bother going to drag tag.if you going to have to trailer your car in then you might as well go to the real drags!

[Kozeyekan]

You know, I´ve stayed out of this conversation for a while for a couple of reasons. First is that I think people should make every effort to comply with the law, or take the consequences when they do not. Second is that This rule should apply to police also, and it does not seem to.

But there are several things I want to point out.

1) Taking dangerous cars off the road is something that I support. By dangerous I mean cars illegally modified with power levels that are too much for the driver. I DO support the current restrictions on turbo and power to weight for P platers, because in general (I know that´s a catch-all, but...) P platers do not have enough road time, emergency collision avoidence experiance, or simply enough cash to run a performance car. There is always going to be exceptions to the rule, but these people can jusat as easily use the car for track days only (especially if it´s a relative or friends)

2) However. The police attitude is currently counter productive.

There is no ownership of a problem. A policeman who gives out a bullshit defect notice is not chastised. They are not answerable for handing out what amounts to a time wasting fine, even when it´s proven later that they didn´t know (Or chose to ignore) the law.

This is an abuse of power and a corruption of proper policing. Plain and simple.

This does not excuse the people who gambled by having illegal mods and lost. Do what you can to change the laws, I´m all for that. Don´t like the chances though.

3) Suppose that the TMU and such take their job very seriously. They consider is a serious crime to breach EPA guidelines. To have a modded ECU is tantamount to robbery in their eyes. And breaching the 95db limit is an act of intolerable cruelty to the populace who they protect. Suppose all this is the reason that they act as they do. To protect the community from this grave threat.

Why then... why oh why... do we hear a batch of harley riders three blocks before we see them, and the cops don´t batt an eye.

Now, this is not just supposition. I´ve seen it. Many times (Well, I can think of 7 off the top of my head anyway) It seems to me from my observations that a cop would rather pull over a p plated jap import than a Harley ridden by a big biker. In the eyes of the law, both these people are law breakers if they have loud exhausts, but maybe the biker is connected and has better lawyers. Maybe he knows the bike laws better. Or maybe he is just scarier than the p-plater.

And it´s not just the bikers. Toorak tractors that blow enough smoke to kill migrating ducks just drive on by. a merc with a hole in the exhaust (Or I suppose a gutted or faulty cat/muffler) drove past me when I was in line for a breatho. It was only doing about 40 km/hr but the sound rattled my windows from two lanes away. Not even a double glance.

I guess the lesson here is: Sell the skyline and buy a german car, mod it to hell and live life free as a bird, or go to the gym and get a harley.

Or maybe I just like to rant. Whatever. If what the police are doing is making the community safer, thumbs up to them. If not, then what the hell are they trying to prove by defecting a quiet group of people exiting a business?

[fuzzy_scuz]

Cop cars DO NOT run different engine managment AT ALL.

As working in holden for quite some time, I can say the only differences to the Commodores (in case of the executive here) an LSD diff, wider wheels and rubber, better suspension, and engine bash guard and a better alternator. All the SS's get is the bigger alternator.

And there are no 'chips' and more, it is now all flash tune.

My Misses works at Ford and there is different ECU settings, but it isn't illegal or after market when the factory supplies it to the Police. BTW the cop cars aren't speed limited.

[fuzzy_scuz]

To the guy that said its easy to modify a car legally (One of the many posts I had quoted to reply to in my previous post) I'd like to know how you get past around 170rwkw in an R32/R33/R34 without either chipped stock ECU (R32), a piggyback computer or a stand alone

My car has 175kw @ all 4 wheels

Highflow CAT and air intake filter, gave me 25kw.

BTW I am running a stock exhaust system and stock ECU which is set on Advanced settings not standard.

Edited February 25, 2007 by fuzzy_scuz

[Gazee]

Why then... why oh why... do we hear a batch of harley riders three blocks before we see them, and the cops don´t batt an eye.

Now, this is not just supposition. I´ve seen it. Many times (Well, I can think of 7 off the top of my head anyway) It seems to me from my observations that a cop would rather pull over a p plated jap import than a Harley ridden by a big biker. In the eyes of the law, both these people are law breakers if they have loud exhausts, but maybe the biker is connected and has better lawyers. Maybe he knows the bike laws better. Or maybe he is just scarier than the p-plater.

And it´s not just the bikers. Toorak tractors that blow enough smoke to kill migrating ducks just drive on by. a merc with a hole in the exhaust (Or I suppose a gutted or faulty cat/muffler) drove past me when I was in line for a breatho. It was only doing about 40 km/hr but the sound rattled my windows from two lanes away. Not even a double glance.

I guess the lesson here is: Sell the skyline and buy a german car, mod it to hell and live life free as a bird, or go to the gym and get a harley.

No one has said this any better... I agree 110%... whats with them not pulling bikers over? they're well over 90db or is it a different law for bikes?