R33 Tarmac Rally - Engine Performance

[R31Nismoid]

Have you looked into the Targa regs yet?

Just that it sounds like you have not, and it would be best to start there and work up

[sav man]

Lag is livable, full boost at 5000rpm, but aslong as you keep it above 4000-4500rpm your fine(i think, i havn't driven the car for a while). I can't remember being caught out by the lag.

Steve Thatcher and Tony Alfords GTRs run standard ceramic turbos, which are awsome for low down power, but can blow the zorst wheel off (they blew one off in Rally Tas)

Normal GTR goes to 8000rpm.

Edited September 27, 2007 by sav man

[gtrtasmania]

Yes.....Studied the Reg's very carefully....therefore the opening post....ECU+Panel Filter + Cat Back....

Just wanting some advice and info........

[Bass Junky]

Regs are:

Open Computers

Open Suspension so long as you don't change the pick up points

Open Brakes

Exhaust must be no larger than the largest part of the stock system

All panels must be stock

Weight must be within a certain amount of stock weight + cage.

Basically the car is meant to be a stock car going racing.

Obviously this is a little basic, but you get the idea.

[Kaido_RR]

if the z-tune is ban, does that mean you cant run r-tune or s-tune gtr?

[Bass Junky]

As I understand it, the cars need to be 'mass produced' to a certain extent.

IE. Can't drive a Pagini Zonda, Mac F1 etc.

The S-Tune and R-Tune are really lower than the N1.

N1 has NO radio, NO this, NO that.

Does have Carboin Fibre under trays, front lip, Carbon Bonnet, etc etc etc.

It's about choosing the highest spec you possibly can, and then building that into a race car.

Or, replicating a lower specced car INTO the higher spec, using all the higher spec parts. must be genuine parts though.

[Duncan]

Two other important regs that hasn't been mentioned, stock boost and injectors too.

So....

70mm exhaust

0.8 bar boost

440cc injectors

There is no way anyone can make more than about 250 4wkw with those rules, so we must all be making about that power

Also...car must be full weight (and cage adds 50kg), and you must run standard turbos. For me that is R32 N1s which are big, bush bearing and laggy. 34 n1 are much better and have ball bearings but are not eligible for a 33.

The categories M1, M2, M3 and banned are based on stock car's 0-100 time, cars quicker than 4 sec are not eligible.

I had few troubles with lag though, just pick the right gear and off you go - we have full boost about 5k and only use to about 7500 (rev limit at 8)

t01-100 (stuart) works for targa, he can clarify any questions you have about eligibility.

[sav man]

your alowed to run unlimited boost in the CAMS regs. hence most GT-R's 300+rwkw, David Ayres has 330rwkw with Sunico fuel in his R33, and i'm pretty sure the other R33 from tas had over 300rwkw.

We were told you can run a 3" exhaust, as 70mm pipe is hard to find.

Your ment to run standard turbo's, but there are a few people that don't.

Edited September 29, 2007 by sav man

[Duncan]

hmm well I guess all I can say is I was surprised how lax scruitineering was, they take it much more seriously in circuit racing, for example I have to run a data logger to prove I don't exceed stock boost....

yes there were lots of people cheating but thats probably all we need to say in a public thread isnt it....no way you can get over 300kw from standard injectors and afms

[sav man]

I wasn't saying David Ayres was cheating (or the other R33 for that matter), I should have reordered those statments a bit better.

300rwkw is possible on stock injectors, just have to run them to 100% duty cycle. My road GTR got 311rwkw on stock injectors.

were you only running stock boost in Targa? I think they only go over the top guys properly, and the class winners are gone over properly at the end of the event.

1.11 Boost levels on turbocharged/supercharged automobiles is unrestricted where changes to boost level can be achieved by means of a permitted modification as outlined in these regulations

Edited September 29, 2007 by sav man

[Duncan]

yeah stock boost....and 1.11 is interesting since there were no other "permitted modifications" which would let us increase boost, unlike say an evo or wrx where ecu controls boost

but yeah went down there being very carful about the regs, was not prepared to go all that way (and spend all that money) to be banned from racing for something stupid. Also we run pretty rich tune to keep the motor alive, I can't afford to lean the motor out - at one stage after a refueling mix up (thanks kiwi) we were running 95 octane without pining.

[paulr33]

obviously in targa / race specs that talk about some level of restrictions that you must run under. i rememeber when they had the rx7s at bathurst for the 24hr endurance race they had to lock them down to set boost etc to keep the power to a 'agreed' level but boost is exactly that, fixed pressure in the manfiold based on the compressor flow, so if you run bla blah compressor you get blah airflow based on pressure and turbine speed. but did the targa specs/reg go into detail such as manifold setup, turbine changes, air intake setup etc?

what about ecu changes, whats allowed here, what about wheel sizes? and diff gears?

[Duncan]

yeah the regs are pretty clear - everything must be factory except certain "freedoms"

full regs are here only 3 pages: 16-19

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/pdf/road/1114...dern%20Q307.pdf

spark plugs are free (but not coils)

injectors, FPR and fuel pump standard

ecu is free, "sensors and actuators on the input side must be standard, as must their function." (given that I don't see that boost can be changed)

silicon intake piping is OK "The pipes between the supercharging device and the intercooler and the manifold are free, but their only function must be to channel air."

this sucks, can't run extended sump any more "The fitting of baffles in the removable section of the oil sump is authorised"

thermostat and radiator cap are free

engine mount material is free

exhaust - standard diameter and location. 70mm for gtrs (hard to find, we had to go to a truck zorst shop). Cat back can be changed, standard dump and front pipes (appalling on a 32)

head gasket is free but must be standard thickness

clutch is free but must be same number of plates as standard (1)

standard diffs and ratios front and rear

springs and shocks are free

sway bars are free

entire brake system is free

standard diameter and width tyres (17x8 on 32)

some interior stuff (trim, carpets, changes to switch gear etc)

minimum weight is standard +43kg

[R31Nismoid]

hmm well I guess all I can say is I was surprised how lax scruitineering was

yes there were lots of people cheating but thats probably all we need to say in a public thread isnt it

Pretty much hit the nail on the head there Duncan

[gtrtasmania]

Sorry to sound stupid here ?

So.... you can't control boost on a GTR with the ECU only ? (as per the Tarmac Rally Reg's)

Thanks agian.

[sav man]

R33 N1's have adjustible accuators on the turbo's from the factory. First time i'd ever seen Nissan adjustible accuators.

Guessing by your name your from Tassie, you north or south?

Edited September 30, 2007 by sav man

[Denver]

As I understand it, the cars need to be 'mass produced' to a certain extent.

IE. Can't drive a Pagini Zonda, Mac F1 etc.

The S-Tune and R-Tune are really lower than the N1.

N1 has NO radio, NO this, NO that.

Does have Carboin Fibre under trays, front lip, Carbon Bonnet, etc etc etc.

It's about choosing the highest spec you possibly can, and then building that into a race car.

Or, replicating a lower specced car INTO the higher spec, using all the higher spec parts. must be genuine parts though.

Pretty sure the Z-tune complies to the production requirements, which im pretty certain there only needs to be 5 cars produced for it to be consider a manufactured car, eg, theres only 5 odd skeltas, the rule actually stopped the skelta running a couple of years ago, as they had 5 cars in the build, but not finished and sold, and thus where not allowed to run that year..

given theres 20 z-tunes, it'd comply, if it has been banned, im guessing its more due to the power of it, as there are certain porka models which are also banned due to being to fast/powerful to be considered safe..

[sav man]

5 Australian cars, 500 cars from outside Australia. So it lets Aussie car makers have a go. And anything 0-100 faster than 3.5secs is banned.