Gym And Supplement Discussion

[No Crust Racing]

Rev suggested what you could do to fix it, but you're happy in your ways.

So you did what you criticised others for doing.

Honestly I couldn't care less though, I'm very pro do what you like, so long as you're not criticising others for doing the same.

Markos: who said PLers were fat? If that's a generally held view I don't share it.

Birds summed it up well enough for me. Happy enough to be average, if I can even get there

I have a world of respect for guys who want and go beyond that, but its not what I want.

I've never considered training at a gym but if I was nearby I'd happily train at PTC.

I'm contemplating seeing Matt again in a month or so for a progress check up, knowing hes there is a great as I can get a form check and pointers as I run into new problems while learning and progressing.

Tested dip belt, cool.

[Birds]

I think the fat powerlifter perception comes from strongman contests and the notion that powerlifters tend to focus on building strength, with looking good in the mirror being a second priority, if at all. Obviously some desire and achieve both with a strict diet and heavy training; consequently, Martin's physique is fantastic. As Boz said, there are plenty who don't diet as well.

[markos]

Bozdos, where is your local powerlifting club and where do they compete

[bozodos]

Mildura Powerlifting Club, and no idea - I'd have to ask one of the members that I know.

I've had another gym reccommended to me by a Crossfitter I know, except the whole Crossfit / Paleo thing just isn't my scene.

[Birds]

Birds won a DL comp at his gym deadlifting 1.5 x bw for some reps, I bet most people at that gym take supplements. So Bird is the strongest there, and I have 4 girls here who could beat him at that lift, what does that say about the rest of the lifters at that gym? That is not a slight on Birds, he knows how strong our girls are, but it is a slight on mainstream gym members, and their "knowledge" on most things weight related, like the comment that protein powder is food.

Haha sif...you love every chance you can to slight me!

Plenty at my gym who can deadlift more than me; 1.5x bodyweight deads favour the lightweight and there weren't many competing, hence I don't think of my win as a huge achievement. But I am one of the stronger people there for my size, which says a lot about the standard of strength in commercial gyms, and I agree with you: the knowledge and rituals circulating around commercial gyms are absolute garbage. My gym is better than it used to be - at least people are deadlifting and squatting now, albeit not that much. And I still walk around asking curling friends if they have done their deadlifts today. I'd like to think people like me are having an impact on these movements being adopted in commercial gyms.

Worse: I'm a celebrity down there now. No less than 10 randoms have said hi to me or referred to me as the champ...then introduced me to people who look at me like "Really? This skinny guy won the deadlifting comp?". But I remain humble; you've ruined it for me with exposure to PTC vids. The irony being that I probably wouldn't be lifting what I am if I didn't see others far exceeding what I do. I'd probably be lifting to the standard of guys my size in my gym, instead of surpassing it. Testament to environment and exposure playing a big part in one's success.

[jangles]

Markos - not a single member of our local powerlifting club that I have seen has that kind of aesthetic physique - quite the opposite, so that's why that kind of got stuck in my head in the first place.

Look at strongmen for another example - many of them do look quite fat despite being insanely strong, Derek Poundstone being a notable exception.

I realise that unlike us, you are a professional, and dislike being told you're wrong, but surely it is best to keep an open mind!

I can't really do much with my routine right now due to the limitations of going to a commercial gym and because my gymbros are not interested in doing any structured programs. I'm still making progress, and they really encourage me to go harder, so I'm happy with that for now.

I have protein shakes to keep up my low carb cut, because I actually like the taste and as a replacement for eating cans of tuna / chicken breast all the time, because it bores me. If I could recall some of the studies about ingesting 1g/lb or so of protein a day, I'd link them. Also cheaper or the same price as eating regular protein sources for snacks (eggs being the one possible exception). If there is any empirical evidence to suggest they are detrimental to health or wellbeing, I'm all ears. $50 for a month's worth of 'snacks', is not a huge expense IMO, especially given that I no longer smoke or drink every week.

While I'm still a beginner, what harm can trying out various things do to judge their effects for myself?

There are plenty of other meat varieties you know?

if you weigh ~80kg, thats ~176g of protein according to the studies you talk of. If you cant fit that in as whole foods, in 3 meals a day, that must really suck.

Edited July 2, 2013 by jangles

[No Crust Racing]

I'm curious then, and I like lively discussion, If we're talking about eating only whole foods to get enough protein (without excess carbs/sugar/fat), what does a typical diet look like for some of you guys who do not use any supplements?

Some of you might recall I raised this very question earlier in the thread, about using supplements instead of just eating what's needed and at that time (If I remember rightly) a few people said don't be scared of supplements, when I was talking about not wanting to live on them.

Edited July 2, 2013 by ActionDan

[TTT]

I think I'm done in this section of the forum.

All the best.

Edited July 2, 2013 by TTT

[No Crust Racing]

lol why would you announce that?

[-FIGJAM-]

I'm curious then, and I like lively discussion, If we're talking about eating only whole foods to get enough protein (without excess carbs/sugar/fat), what does a typical diet look like for some of you guys who do not use any supplements?

Some of you might recall I raised this very question earlier in the thread, about using supplements instead of just eating what's needed and at that time (If I remember rightly) a few people said don't be scared of supplements, when I was talking about not wanting to live on them.

I take no supplements and eat anything and everything I can.

There are no left overs in my house hold. Does that help?

[No Crust Racing]

Hah, kind of.

What's your main source of protein or do you not think that much about it and just eat everything you can get your hands on? Are you doing any specific cooking/prep?

[-FIGJAM-]

if ive worked a good amount of OT I'll order a bunch of meals from my muscle chef to cover me for a week. If budget doesn't permit then I'll just eat anything and everything in my house. Generally the gf and I live on pretty good food, meat and veg type of thing and she over cooks most nights which is good for me.

to be honest though, where i am at now, how much protein i consume each day isnt of concern to me as I can get enough from my steak, chicken, pork, eggs that I eat each day.

with that in mind, have i put much size on this year? no, reason why is partly diet and partly training, I havent been hitting the gym as regularly I was last year and I havent been eating to gain weight.

I honestly believe if you try hard enough, 90% of people can get enough protein from whole meals to achieve the goals that they are after. Sure if you're a sales rep or something protein shakes are convenient, but they should never be taken as a meal replacement. Last year I put 5-6kg. All that changed for me was my level of training, and the type of food i was eating. No where near as much processed food or take away, more whole some home cooked meals and milk, lots of milk.

There is a video of Kai Green on youtube cooking his meals for the day, I recommend everyone take a look at it and listen to what he is actually saying and the point he makes.

[No Crust Racing]

You might say it's food for thought....

[bozodos]

jangles: I'm still at 120kg and losing weight down to my 100kg target, so that's what I base my protein calculations off. Yeah sure I can eat a big steak and get half of what I'm after, but given that I am trying to keep total calories down as well, it does make it more difficult. Generally I eat beef, chicken and kangaroo on a regular basis. The amount of protein consumed per meal for it to be absorbed by the body is a whole other thing too.

Generally for me I have a protein shake an hour and a half before training, and one straight after. It's not like I skip a main meal.

I'm also not keen enough to plan every meal weeks or months in advance, but I'm sure it probably could be done without supplementing any protein. I looked into IIFYM, but it's a little too anal for me.

I like to get multiple opinions and then try out different things - I really don't see the big deal with discussing options that some of you more experienced guys don't agree with. I'm sure that the Crossfitters would be keen to tell you how you're doing it all wrong for example. Does that make the PTC style of training any better or worse than a proper Crossfit box? Depends on a number of factors according to the trainee IMO.

I do however know how much hyperbole and utter crap surrounds the world of supplements though - for example, raspberry ketones touted as a weight loss supplement were scientifically shown to be completely f**king useless at this. It does not stop the local supplement shop touting them as 'the next big thing' for weight loss. Same with a lot of the 'testosterone boosters' etc.

I think most of us in here are smart enough to know that most pro bodybuilders are cycling steroids as well as training HARD, as well as the pro powerlifters etc. I do agree that there are no shortcuts, otherwise we'd all be swole.

Will watch that doco mentioned earlier, looks interesting.

[-FIGJAM-]

IIFYM is probably the easiest diet going. Eat whatever you want, but stay within your macro boundary. Don't see what is so hard about that?

Something I have learnt from training for years without much success, if you don't get the basics right then you will fail.

Now crossfit is a whole different kettle of fish, as i was interested in getting into it, I read up, spoke to people who do and have trained in crossfit. I would suggest taking your time to look at it, the majority of feedback i found was in short, people had never been as fit and in shape in their life as they are whilst doing it and followed up with, so many knee and shoulder injuries.

[Trozzle]

(don't read this the wrong way FIGJAM) your use of commas makes that sentence nearly unreadable lol...I know what it's saying, but the sentence makes no sense.

[bozodos]

That's basically what I saw. Don't like the cult like mentality, or how they try to claim that they are the 'elite' of fitness. Most of the people I know who've done really well at it were already really strong and in good condition, but the rate of injury among regular people trying to do it is also offputting.

I see the same thing with the "MMA"/kickboxing types with their extreme cardio group training. It gets them really well conditioned (though most do not seem to have the right diet anyway), but a lot of injuries. Ironically, they're usually the same people who try to tell me that "doing weights won't help you lose weight".

Edited July 2, 2013 by bozodos

[-FIGJAM-]

sorry about the grammar I need to learn engrish and stop trying to focus on 13 things at once.

[No Crust Racing]

lol tell Troy to EAD

[Birds]

I think I'm done in this section of the forum.

All the best.

You p