Gym And Supplement Discussion

[No Crust Racing]

hahaha - "rode out on the drama llama"

Pretty sure I posted a pic of a llama for him too, after he'd made his grand announcement that he was leaving.

[-FIGJAM-]

So what is the difference between the amature and the pro groups?

[Birds]

The importance of cardio in body recomposition! (there is none)

Leesh 8 months ago - exercised for two hours a day, 6 days a week. This daily exercise was made up of an hour's worth of gym work, an hour of cardio/ab/flexibility classes, and sometimes 20-30 minutes on the treadmill. She had been exercising this way for nearly 10 years. Combined with her healthy diet of sweet buggerall, she had a body most women would be quite happy to have:

57kg

But Leesh wanted more muscle "definition". Her own definition (pun) of this was more muscle and less body fat. She consulted me for help. She also started dating me (awesome). I cut out most of Leesh's cardio (wanted to cull it all) and wrote her up a weight training program that consisted of 4 gym sessions per week @ ~1 hour a pop. I also upped her food intake as much as she would let me. Aside from deadlifts and squats (she only started these about 10 weeks ago), Leesh has been trying to follow the regime for around 8 months.

So now with more food, much less cardio and only 1/3 the time spent exercising, she should be muffin topping the same pants with some serious school cafeteria triceps to boot, right?

56kg

We can't be unhappy about less work, more food, being twice as strong, and looking the same (or better IMO). For body recomposition, a little strength training is better than a shit ton of cardio.

Now, in 8 months people have achieved much more - Leesh is far from done and this isn't a PTC success story, nor is it some radical before and after. Leesh had a very good body beforehand. But, my point here is: she has given up all that cardio and is better for it. As she gets stronger, she will see more improvement in muscle size and "definition", however, I am happy with Leesh's progress given the circumstances. Unfortunately, trying to coach someone from 3000km away has some major limitations. Markos would know all too well: you can tell someone a hundred times how to do it, but until they set foot in your gym, they aren't going to do it exactly how you want. This isn't necessarily Leesh's fault - I can't be there to teach her movements, to correct technique or spot her, or tell her exactly when I think she should increase weights/reps/sets. I'm also not a professional coach and Leesh can't sleep as often as she'd like to. Some problems are on her, like the continuation of some cardio classes or not eating as much as I want her to eat - but - as Markos said, there is no point doing something if it makes you unhappy or giving up the things that do make you happy. For Leesh, these classes are important and that's fine with me. I only wanted her to understand that cardio would hinder her progress, rather than help it...that being unable to do or changing parts of a program to suit yourself is not committing 100% to the program and you are therefore not entitled to 100% of what a program promises you. Leesh is finally starting to accept this. After understanding, comes informed choice, and that is completely up to her.

It is also incredibly hard to change someone's attitude about food, given society raises us all on the overly simplistic principle of more food = fat, less food = thin. Now that Leesh is doing squats and deadlifts...and will hopefully get in a session at PTC Perth soon...I am looking forward to some good strength increases and the body shape that goes with it. Not that I am complaining about what she already has

tl;dr: lift heavier weights, eat lots of good food, and rest well. You'll look fantastic eventually!

[-FIGJAM-]

nudes to follow?

well done Leesh, keep up the hard work.

[No Crust Racing]

Well it's good to have goals, but as was said plenty of girls would be happy to have your physique Leesh, I get the impression some of your battles are fought mentally rather than physically.

Girls tend to have a shitful self image, you may not, I'm just generalising.

Keep plugging away, you'll get stronger and in the process will have that more defined/lean/muscle look. It just takes time.

FIGJAM: Better chance getting them of Birds I'd say.

[Trozzle]

Did someone say they had nudes of Birds?

PM a brother!!!!

[L33SH]

Well it's good to have goals, but as was said plenty of girls would be happy to have your physique Leesh, I get the impression some of your battles are fought mentally rather than physically.

Girls tend to have a shitful self image, you may not, I'm just generalising.

Keep plugging away, you'll get stronger and in the process will have that more defined/lean/muscle look. It just takes time.

You'd be right Dan

Overall I'm feeling disillusioned and I know it takes time, but how much time?

[No Crust Racing]

Well I see it a bit differently.

My "plan" is to just keep plugging away getting stronger over time until such point as I either get injured or too old to maintain that weight then I'll gradually reduce the weight but continue exercising, MY point being I do not feel like I'll ever "get" to anywhere in particular, rather than I'll be exercising for most of my life because I enjoy it, it makes me feel good, look decent, helps me lift heavy things, work on the car, etc.

For me it's not a process with one goal in mind, it's a life style choice. I've taken time off before, well over a year to let things heal up, persue other interests for a while etc and that will probably happen again, but ultimately I always see myself doing some form of exercise.

Foir you, well you have some kind of look in mind obviously so you will be "done" when you get there and then you need to maintain it.

How long will that take? That's determined by your commitment and determination.

About twice the length from the starting point to about the middle...

EDIT: As for being disillusioned, when I hit a mental wall, I change something. Add weight, new exercise, move exercise around, buy a new gym shirt, take a full week off (you should not overlook the need to do this every now and then anyway).

Then come back refreshed.

Edited July 12, 2013 by ActionDan

[-FIGJAM-]

You'd be right Dan

Overall I'm feeling disillusioned and I know it takes time, but how much time?

average age of the winners of Mr Olympia is 33 years old.

in short it can take a long time and it is something you can work at for your entire life.

[L33SH]

Dan, It's a lifestyle choice for me too. I've grown up with fitness and exercise as my mum is a PT and Les Mills instructor, and as mentioned before I've been exercising for 10 years. This last 8 months has been a big change for me and at times I've felt a bit on my own. During the past year and a half I've also had significant personal challenges to overcome coupled with giving up my own exercise routine that was my comfort zone, and making changes to my diet; increasing food intake which has its own mental challenges.

Changing my ways isn't easy but I'm doing it for the bigger picture. I don't have a particular image that I think, "when I look like that I've achieved my goal." I just feel frustrated that I haven't seen physically and strength wise what I thought I would see in 8 months is all. But I know I need to continue squats and deadlifts for longer to see change. Hopefully in another 8 months I'll be happier than I am now.

Edited July 12, 2013 by L33SH

[No Crust Racing]

Sorry wasn't implying that this was a fad for you, just saying for me it's a lifestyle thing, if it is for you too then you will always be fine

I think I mentioned before, 8mths is not much, and I know that sounds harsh, but it;s been 8mths of decent effort not 8mths of balls (ovaries to the wayy) out and out 110% dedication to strength gains. Whcih is completely fine, I personally don't train that way so it would be remiss of me to give you a hard time. Just saying that realistically you have a ways to go (which is why I like build threads).

I looked back on my build thread yesterday to see where I started out when I began project squat dodger/no more curling like a bro. It's been good so far, squatting 3 times a week, haven't curled in ages, getting stronger across the board. Only small gains, but gains all the same.

Keep at it and if you can get into a PTC and do a session or two, that was a ral turning point for me, so much so that I consider myself having only been going at it since that time, the time before that was just treading water.

[L33SH]

Thanks Dan for the clarification. I will keep at it and ill try and get to PTC at some stage, it's just a long drive. Maybe Birds can start a build thread for me if you think it would help.

[No Crust Racing]

Yeah easy for me to say when I could go see Matt on the way home from work so do the PTC one when convenient, maybe when next in Melbs? You and le Birds could head out and see Markos for some confidence crushing tuition. (I'm joking Markos relax).

Start a build thread only if you want one, otherwise it'll be just another annoyance, I'm pretty verbose and I like to dataz so being able to look back and go lol 40kg squat, or hopefully in another year lol 100kg squat is good for me.

Edited July 12, 2013 by ActionDan

[L33SH]

I'd need to go sooner rather than later as I'm still unconfident with deadlift technique, not in Melbourne til at least October so I will look at going to Perth at some stage.

I don't really know about a build thread, my increases are so small I feel as if I'd be writing in the same numbers every week. Take bench for example, which I've been doing for 8 months. Started at 30kg and I'm now at 40kg, not really much increase for 8 months yet I try to up the weight most sessions.

[No Crust Racing]

As I said, up to you, if you look at mine there has been weeks of the same numbers but I also talk about physio visits, walking/running at some points, etc etc just so I have a record.

So you've increased your bench by 33% and that makes you unhappy? So at 57kg you were benching 52% of your BW, and are now benching 71% of your BW at 56kg, so you got lighter AND stronger...

Tough crowd...

Like I said, I think some of your bigger hurdles are up stairs girlfriend *snaps fingers* but I don't know you and it's not my place to make judgment calls so take all my ramblings with a grain of salt (or some cheese and crackers!).

Edited July 12, 2013 by ActionDan

[L33SH]

It's up to Birds, if he thinks I should do one I will if not I won't.

[No Crust Racing]

All that and the part you focused on was about the build thread.

And what is, the 50s were a girl can't make her own choice?

My 2 cents, don't do one, you;re not interested in it so it won't serve you any benefit. Put your time into things that have a positive impact for you.

Like 33% bench improvements!

[L33SH]

I don't have to reply to every comment you made, doesn't mean I don't take it in.

[-FIGJAM-]

all it will do Leesh is act as a diary for working out.

wont make you lift more or less, wont change how your body looks. It is just one of many places where you could store some information about your progress.

If you look at my build it is full of garble.

[No Crust Racing]

That's the best kind FIG

Leesh: Fair enough