Gym And Supplement Discussion

[markos]

Most people miss the real cause of their problems

I get guys in here that are obese, and they explain they have to start training again as they've put on weight

Not training didnt make them obese, the food they ate did

Same applies with programs. Some lament the fact they've been on the wrong program, hence why they've made no progress. I bet Martin and Max could make aesome gains on a crap program.

But these are just words. You need to see what training really is. Why do new clients here make unbelievable progress when they join? Because they can see how hard the better lifters actually train.

Once you can train like that, and everything it entails, only then will the program be very important.

Until that stage, swapping 3 x 6 for 4 x 8 or 5 x 5 is the most insignificant thing you can do in the gym.

I keep telling people, Nina is the least talented powerlifter in the gym, yet she has 26 World Records and the guys wont train with her. Why?

On Thursday she did GVT (German Volume Training). Squats 60kg x 10 x 10 with 60sec rest, followed by bench press 50kg x 10 x 10 with 60sec rest.

She felt she hadnt done enough. I had mentioned at the Tassie Fit Expo a lady won the KB swing CrossFit challenge with 75 swings with a 12 kg KB in 2m27s, so she did that and smashed the time.

Again, its just words, very different when you see it, and very few outside our gym understand it.

[No Crust Racing]

Then you have missed the point of my question.

It's was not about what program to use it was about where best to apply that extra effort you are taking about.

Sets, reps, more weight? Those are all examples of MORE effort which you say is needed, so all I'm asking is where best is that effort focused.

I have no problem putting in more of any of those, simply checking with others more knowledgable than myself where the effor is best utilised because I checked my ego long ago, as you point out is essential.

It's not like people here don't listen and try to apply what you talk about, but that doesn't mean there won't be questions.

[Birds]

You haven't listened though dude...we keep telling you...do MORE. You're overthinking it. It doesn't matter where you add the extra weight or the extra set or the extra rep. If you've done more in that session then that's more than last. If you've done two warm up sets instead of one, that's still more. If you've done two max sets instead of one, that's still more. If you've added 1kg to your 56th set out of 100...more. If you can't do more, eat and rest more.

Go read Leesh's build thread. Compare each exercise with the same exercise in the next session. She will do anywhere from 5 sets up to 8, 1 rep up to 10. It's all over the place, because I've been coaching her and teaching her to increase anything she can wherever she can. Sometimes I tell her to remove a warm up set and substitute with another working set, sometimes I tell her to remove a working set to increase performance on max sets so she's doing less sets and more reps of higher weights. Sometimes I add an extra set to push through a plateau. It's all over the place because the OCD numbers don't matter, the extra exerted effort does.

Check out her lat pulldown in particular. She's doing 65kg on that, which is outright more than a lot of guys do in commercial gyms (let alone relative to bodyweight), and she's still a newbie with lots of room to go. The sets and reps are all over the place, but you'll notice a pattern in this exercise - that max weight number keeps going up and up.

[rev210]

I think the key is outside of the volume and 'more' . It's before the numbers. It is your intensity and mind commitment.

This is what I think Markos is refering to when he made mention of the 'numbers' being low in significance.

Doing 'more' is also in that bag. As is special foods , pre-workouts and any 'program'.

These things can become a mental crutch and an excuse.

The mental crutch shows up as things like;

* 'clinging' (when you think something outside of you is key the reason you progress)

Then

* 'ever seeking the magic bullet' (when you need something to blame for the lack or progress).

It's much harder to get anywhere when you don't understand that when something is being lifted 'YOU' are lifting it. Not the program or the food. Taking the responsibillity of getting to point 'B' by understanding your body is doing the walking.

Effort becomes the focus.

I would suggest that peoples(including me) present 1RM or personal bench mark is well below thier potential for no other reason than the mind is in the way. If you can't believe in & understand yourself without the crutches. You will not allow yourself to run because you aren't prepared to drop them or realise you don't need a new set (crutches).

For thought as an example of a program at the other extreme ;

At my strongest I trained under a program that most would percieve as a non-effort (However, it was researched and very effective) It looked like this;

Workout frequency = 1 workout day in 7-10 days rest (varied according to peak recovery and zero excersise days in between)

Set / reps = 2-4 reps (target 2) 1-2 sets (2 max) . Exception was Squatting 2 set of 5-8 ( As I had no spotters and walked out of a rack)

Different Movements on a session (squat etc) = 2- 3 max

Rest between sets / movements = resting heart rate and blood pressure.

Over the time I did this program , I would have been lifting weights up and down for about 5min a month (not including time spent resting in the gym).

It hurt peoples brains when they saw me lifting and asked me what my program was. They thought I was either telling fibs or taking roids. But, they didn't see me at home with ice packs. And didn't notice when I was on the ground un-able to move after a session.

You could argue that I added 'more' to the weights each time. But, actually how much I added was less important than the drive I had to lift it. I was forced to push myself outside the comfort zone. That was the lesson I got from that time. I got the excuses beaten out of me.

Want to know what WORKS most in the gym ? = YOU

Are YOU working?

Edited August 17, 2013 by rev210

[L33SH]

Yes!

[Nee-san]

ABC

Always be curling.

[-FIGJAM-]

Dan Markos method of getting through a platue is simple: so more

More sets, more reps or more weight. Must be progressive in one way every workout

[rev210]

Dan Markos method of getting through a platue is simple: so more

More sets, more reps or more weight. Must be progressive in one way every workout

if getting through sticking points was only ' more' then no one would need coaching. That principle is evident in all training methodology worth some salt.

You must push your body through that barrier. In order to do that you must undertake learning. There is much on the mental side of training that is taught but, not dicussed.

You can be given a program that says do more and fail. Its not the program.

Even within a program, there is what you are willing to contribute to it to make it work.Some Althletics programs in use would be un appertising for people because they can be brutal. People like simple . 'do more' is simple. But for every 10 people who hear that and try to adopt it, only 1 will likely get something out of it . I am sure Markos has spread that program around forums to people and the stats are probably worse. Not because of the program but because its not in the program. It's the persons commitment.

If you do 5 reps more when you could do 20. You add 2kg more when you could add 20kg. You do 1 set more when you could do 3.

That mindset is weak and no program can make up for it.

You could argue that you are still progressing.you are happy with that. Reality is that the gap between potential and commitment will likely widen. Once you get stronger the energy cost and forces become greater. They will introduce discomfort,pain and distraction the stronger you get. Someone with the brakes like this will find training losing appeal Once the wall is hit. I can relate to that myself.

Edited August 17, 2013 by rev210

[L33SH]

When the mind is weak a situation is a problem. When the mind is balanced a situation is a challenge. When the mind is strong a situation is an opportunity.

[No Crust Racing]

Thanks all. I think I've got it.

Just gotta sort out what's going on in my hammy/pelvies etc.

Slowly but surely

[No Crust Racing]

Also, if you're getting quite tight to the point of notable discomfort in the lower back when squatting (low bar) what does that imply about the form? leaning too far forward? core not tight enough? weak posterior chain?

[rev210]

Also, if you're getting quite tight to the point of notable discomfort in the lower back when squatting (low bar) what does that imply about the form? leaning too far forward? core not tight enough? weak posterior chain?

Pretty sure the hip motion may be you challenge there. Have you done things like wall squats before? How is your hip mobility when you do them?

[No Crust Racing]

I have with the Physio and initially I struggled but got better.

Thin 'g is I'm doing all the piriformis, sij, and hip flexor stretches and foam rolling already.

Pretty much the whole area actually I stretch and foam roll the whole thing from calves to upper back daily.

[Mitcho_7]

Surely there's a chance the soreness is just doms, your lower back has to do some serious stabilisation during squats...

[No Crust Racing]

It's not doms if it's during the exercise though?

[Mitcho_7]

There comes a point where you just need to go and see someone about all your ailments, e-diagnosis isnt the best...

[No Crust Racing]

I have been Physio and Myo

[rev210]

Bad form is likely the issue. It will be position /hip motion.

[Birds]

There comes a point where you just need to go and see someone about all your ailments, e-diagnosis isnt the best...

lol this is what I've done in the last week...have maxillofacial surgeon booked, orthopedic surgeon booked, chiropractor, physio and GP,

NIB gonna love me!

[No Crust Racing]

Bad form is likely the issue. It will be position /hip motion.

Is there any big ticket form failure that leads to sore lower back?